Episode 86 - Erin Gray
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Mel: Welcome to Permission to be Human, the podcast. I'm your host Mel Findlater mother, coach, and curator of Permission to be Human, the company and community. If you're a mom, know a mom, or want to be a mom, and you crave getting out in the world to make a difference, then you're in the right place. This is a space for moms like you to connect with yourself, your purpose, and your big audacious dreams.
Because when you feel your best, you can better you, your family, and the wider world. Let's do this.
On today's episode, we have a conversation with an amazing woman named Erin gray. About a topic that so many of us avoid myself included today. We're going to talk about money. And. How money [00:01:00] and the stories that we learn from our culture and our families. How they impact us. And Erin gray is an incredible woman who. Helps us dig into these stories and go beyond the typical, you know, go online.
Let's get rich in one day kind of things. Right. Let's dig into. Worthiness and beliefs and our values around how money. Fits in our lives. And she does this through sharing her own story around. Recognizing these things and shifting her own life drastically to be a money coach. And now that's what she gets to do.
And. Be with her child as well. So.
Enjoy. ​
Mel: Okay. Hi, Erin. [00:02:00] Hi, how are you? Uh, good. I'm so excited to have you here because as I just mentioned, I really remember like some really good feelings after we did our little intro chat, uh, somewhat recently. So I'm excited to have you here to hear more about your story, but also to, you know, tap into this topic of money, which I avoid this topic, by the way, like at all costs.
So, uh, I know I'm not the only one that does, so I think it will be really good to, um, just chat about what that's all about and what we do with it.
Erin: Thanks for having me, and I also have been there, so, and there's a lot of women, a lot of humans that are there, right? And we don't talk about it enough, and we tend to glamorize it versus what's all the in between, in the middle, and the skinny.
And so that's what I really want people to talk more about. So, [00:03:00]
Mel: yes, I, I was going to say, I love that.
Erin: And then I'm
Mel: like, do I love it? I will love it. You will help me love it.
Erin: Yeah, and I think, you know, I don't know if you and I talked about this, but I think for, we have all this, like a friend of mine said, it feels more complicated.
And I'm like, you know, that's a really good word for it because we do see the benefits of having money or being able to use money or. Circulated and share it and, you know, those types of things. And then it gets muddied or muddled with like people that we don't necessarily look up to. And I think that there's this, this conflicting versus we need more women and men, but we need more women who, you know, generate money and have money and share it and do good with it.
So that we can see that the evidence grows for that versus, [00:04:00] you know, The sleazy sales guy or, you know, the, you know, the guy in his private plane telling you to do things that don't feel good in your body to do. And so, I think that that's, That's definitely one of my passions. Missions is to really normalize talking about money and sharing where we all have a money story.
You know, when people were like, Oh, I don't have any money. It's like, we all have money. Like it, it doesn't, it touches every area of our life. We all have a money story and to have a, I didn't get to this point immediately. So this is not an overnight thing, but to get to the point of having a loving, nourishing.
nurturing relationship with money is what I want, especially women to get to the point to have.
Mel: I am so tempted to just dive right in. But before we do, let's find out, like, who are you?
Erin: Erin. So [00:05:00] the, the not so polished version is just like, I feel like I'm a lot of fun. Now, I used to not be a lot of fun. Um, my background is in finance. And I think a lot of that came from, Probably money trauma me growing up, like seeing what I saw.
I didn't want to be in the position my parents were in. And so I educated myself. It was a way for me to help people and make money. Um, but I did what I call a lot of 3d stuff, right? Like, so, you know, all of the information about finance, but I wasn't, On the five D, the spiritual, the emotional side, I still was very fear based with money.
And so I got my degree in finance and was a financial planner for years and hustling and doing all of the things. And I got tired of it. I loved helping people. I didn't like working all of the hours. And so I changed and started helping my family run their construction [00:06:00] business. And got in and what I thought was going to be oh, just help me with a couple of things was this massive undertaking of changing their entire business model and the way that they ran business and things of that sort.
And then I got to a point where I was like, what am I doing? Like, I've checked the boxes and they tell me that that's supposed to feel good, but it doesn't. What am I going to do with my life? And recognizing I probably didn't have the words for it at the time, but recognizing the burnt out NIS, I mean, I literally scheduled my only child's birth around payroll.
Um, so. Giving you some idea of how much I was probably a workaholic and money driven because, and that came from fear. It didn't necessarily come from greed. It was very much like, I am so afraid of being without money. I have to create and save and save and save. So the [00:07:00] short version is I quit my family's business.
That was a year plus way more in the making. And. Started coaching people and then realized like, I just want to have some time off. Like I said, never had time off. Like literally I decided, I told my husband when our daughter was a week old, I think I'm going to take another week off before I go back to work, like craziness, what I had done.
And so three months of time off turned into almost three years. And then now getting back into the swing of things and wanting to help women really change and transform their relationship with money. Because like I said, in the beginning, it impacts every area of our life. And the more of us that have a wonderful relationship with it, loving relationship with it, the more of us that get to see that that's possible for us to.
Mel: Yeah.
Okay. So before we get in full on into that money conversation, we've got, [00:08:00] you know, an interesting kind of backstory of, so yeah, you jumped into the money kind of area, but as you say, it was more fear based and out of like almost what felt like necessity. It's my word, but that's what it sounded like. Um, and you know, if you can, if you can grab hold of that and Congress control it, then you'll be all right.
Erin: Thinking of security, right? Like thinking, I mean, I was taught like my dad was entrepreneurial, right? And he had businesses all of my life and he had money and then he made some choices and then we didn't have money. And I saw the impact of that. And I saw the impact of their relationship with that. And little 10 year old Aaron's body, you know, just.
at the time didn't know how to understand all of that. And then he, you know, bounced back and was successful, financially successful again. I don't like using the word successful because I think we attach money to success, but lots of people are, air quotes, successful to don't have fulfillment. Um, [00:09:00] and so I really recognized the, I didn't ever want to be in that position and I never wanted to have my child in that position.
And so it was definitely a running away from in the sense of I wasn't going towards to make more money because it felt expansive and it was fun. And what was I capable of? It was, I am so scared to ever be in this position. What do I need to do? Save hoard. You know, my, it's interesting because my brother was like, I'll just make more money.
That was his thought from that experience. And my experience was like, I'll make money, but I'm going to save everything I have because I just never want to be in that situation. And it all came from fear. It all came from, if I have this money, I'll be secure. But that wasn't true because the more that we accumulated and saved and invested, I didn't feel better or more secure.
So it was kind of that light bulb moment when we were flipping a house that I would call it a panic attack self diagnosed But [00:10:00] that's basically, you know, what happened and I was like this has to change like I can't live the rest of my life I was I don't know almost 40 in this fear like always Like it was consuming like addictive probably is a really good word for it and not recognizing that that is part of money trauma I didn't realize that's Part of money trauma and so really kind of unraveling and seeing that as well.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah So I'm curious, you know, you said you took this time off you listen and you're like Oh, you just gonna have a bit of time and then a bit more time in this actually like this is feeling good What was that? What was that like and like what did you? Hmm. I don't know. I was going to say fill your time with, but that is not the phrase that I actually mean, like, what did it look like for you?
Erin: Yeah. Um, well, first, you know, the, I haven't done drugs. I have drank too much alcohol in my life. [00:11:00] So I know what that felt like coming off of alcohol, but I would call it an addiction. Like you, if you have been so used to, and I think in the Western society, we really praise making money and contributing to society and all of this kind of stuff.
So we wrap all of this stuff in with money. So when you don't have that, and you have made your value exist on that, then it was an identity crisis. It was like, who am I? I'm not making money. I'm not saving money. We're actually using our money. Like all of the things that I had repressed, suppressed for so many years.
They didn't have anywhere to go, but up and out. And so, you know, the first year that I was off, I probably spent a lot of it crying and being in anger, didn't know that that was going to happen. You know, I thought it was going to be so fun and we were going to travel and we did [00:12:00] some of that, but really recognizing some of those deep seated wounds that I had never tended to that had been covered up because I had worked.
And if you're so busy all the time. you're not giving yourself space to look at some of this stuff. So that was probably the first year of like recognizing doing a lot of inner inner work, not just like mindset work, but like body somatic work. And really, There was some anger that I had with my parents.
Like, why would you do that to a 10 year old? You know, like I had to work through and now coming on the other side, my dad did it from an empowered place. Like he was trying to teach me, Hey, Aaron, there are consequences for your actions and your behaviors. It's just a 10 year old and their brain and their emotions and their body can't handle [00:13:00] it the way that.
The 35 or 40 year old might. So really. I think feeling anger and also then coming to a place of love and compassion for my parents, like they were doing the best that they could with what they had. And like, I can't even imagine what it would have been like with three kids. And you don't even know how you're going to make rent and all of that kind of stuff, you know?
So having, going through those phases, you know, of emotions to get to the point of like, I'm so grateful for that experience. And I'm grateful for my parents and, you know, like they were just doing the best that they could with what they had, you know?
Definitely.
Mel: And I can see that even now, you know, having worked through so much of it, you know, it's still there. I can see the emotion on your face that that brings up to, um, you know, acknowledge that gratitude and, and that journey. Yeah. Um, from kind of [00:14:00] surviving to. Yeah. You know, on your way to thriving, right?
Uh, yeah. Yeah. And you had a daughter at home. You know, when you say your first year, uh, you know, you're talking as you're speaking, you're like, oh, you know, finding that space. And I was thinking, I don't remember having a lot of space in my first year of motherhood. Right, right. And that's why I stopped myself from saying, how did you feel that time?
Because as someone who was, was home, uh, you know, has been home for the whole time, you know, my time is filled. That, that's not an issue.
Erin: I, um. I also used to be a person like my husband used to almost brag, like, Oh, my wife doesn't cry. It's like, well now, because I wasn't, I didn't have healthy. I wasn't connected to my emotions.
Right. So we had to get to the point where like, nothing's wrong. Mom's just crying again, because it was just so much of a release that I had just buried deep inside. Like literally, I remember asking a coach, like [00:15:00] why every time I'm working through this, do I start crying? Because I just had never allowed myself.
To cry. It was always like worried about what everybody else needed or, you know, whether it be business or family or just like Aaron didn't even exist anywhere on that plane, you know? And so that first year of. You know feeling those feelings also learning how to be present like that wasn't a skill that I had at all multitasking I was great at but that isn't presence, you know, and so really being present and Spending time with myself by myself spending time with my husband spending time with my daughter spending time with all of us like those were skills that I had to develop because It had never been something that I had done before, you know, like I think we all sit down for [00:16:00] dinner and that kind of stuff, but like true, you know, having those deep conversations or, you know, and I think really processing and learning to feel my feelings.
That's probably what that first year was like.
Mel: Yeah, I can definitely relate. And it's almost like, um, goes in cycles. Yes. It's like, I thought, I thought I learned how to do this already. Yep. Just next levels. Right? Right. Next level. Next level. And the habits have come back. And, you know, um, when we're, when you're stepping out of that comfort zone, our body naturally goes back to those like protection.
Yes. Uh, habits. Right. Which makes sense. It's keeping us safe. Um, but you know, so yeah, it's this cycle over and over and over again.
Erin: And also recognizing like, you know, self compassion was a big one because I didn't have self compassion. So I remember reading the book, [00:17:00] Kristen Neff, I think is author self compassion.
And. I remember getting, I think it was the end of 2021. And I remember like the money stuff came up again and I started feeling it in my chest. I remember getting frustrated with myself like, when is this going to end? Like, and like what you just said, like I've gotten to the point where like make peace.
Like it may never right. Like that might be my soul's journey on earth and to work through. And, and, um, Is it as intense as it used to feel three or four or five years ago? No, nowhere near it, but it still comes up. And so just having such compassion for where I am right now. And it was almost, I didn't recognize it at the time, but it was this.
resistance to where I was, right? I wanted to just get through it because I didn't like feeling that all the time or feeling those intenseness versus, okay, here we are again, you know, what do you need in this moment? Um, and so that was a lot of it too, of like self compassion, self compassion [00:18:00] for myself, compassion for my family, um, compassion for my parents, you know, all of that part of it too.
Yeah. I mean, what comes to mind is like, we're all just doing the best that we can with what we have, you know, that's, that's really what I recognized. I don't know if I recognize it in that first year, but really, as the time was off, it was like such love for humanity because we're all like, we're doing the best that we can with where we are.
And how can we, you know, even when we flip our lid, how can we self soothe and give ourselves what we need? And also it isn't about us, right? It's not someone's trying to do that to us. Um, they have their wounds, they have their, you know, experiences. And so allowing that too and understanding that.
Mel: Yeah, definitely.
And it, you know, it makes me think of like, [00:19:00] you know, with this, It comes up again and again. And as you say, there's this like resistance in the first time or two or three or, you know, however much. And once that resistance starts to go, then actually the anger isn't necessarily the first response, which it is at the beginning when we start this work, right?
Yeah. And when anger isn't there to make us defensive and, you know, do all the things that it does, then it's actually, or at least it's not taking over, even if it's simmering under there, then it's, it's easier the next time. Like, yeah, the, that resistance isn't there. So the feels just come and then they go.
Um, Which I'm literally saying to myself as well right now, right? It's like, as you go into the next growth spurt, it's like, whoa, hey, yeah, I thought I already learned this. Like, I did a coaching, I was, I was coached the other day and I was trying to come up with a topic. I was like, what, what is it that I like want to work on?
And I'm like, it's the same [00:20:00] topic I'm always working on. I swear I've had like 10 sessions on this, right? Um, but it depends which stage. In my life. And each time it's just a little different than the last. So, yeah. It's like
Erin: the onion, right? It's like, we just keep peeling back the onion and how can we get more soft?
You know, that was the anger thing was really interesting because I don't know. I'd be curious if for your listeners, if they feel this way, I really wasn't allowed when I was growing up to be angry. Or to feel, I should say to feel anger, right? We're not, we're not angry, but we feel anger. And so that was really, that was a step that I needed to experience because I had to very much so growing up, like anger was shut down in our house.
And so, It was almost an empowering thing for me. I didn't go and yell at anyone. Right. But like, I would journal or whatever I was feeling like to, to, to feel that because I think a lot of women suppress [00:21:00] anger. I mean, men do too. Right. And. Really being able to feel that and then get to the point, like you say, like, and then it just becomes, it feels just soft, you know, it feels because really under the anger, I think is sadness.
Right. And so recognizing that and having that softness and those, and that feeling that sadness. You know, it was a big one too.
Mel: Definitely. Definitely. Um, okay. So you mentioned this phrase of you in your, when you were kind of describing your journey there, you described it as this like 2d version of your relationship with money and this 5d version of your relationship with money.
And I think we've, you know, we've touched the surface of that, but I'm curious if there's more depth you want to go into on that.
Erin: I think that, you know, coming from the finance world. And business [00:22:00] world, it's very, I call it that 3d a very, like, what are the things like, it's just all action based and like, what are the numbers and the pros and the cons and very cerebral and very, I call it like in your head.
Mel: Um,
Erin: it's just. And we do need action right to create things and to bring things into existence, but we have to also check in with like what is the energy that we are in when we are doing those things and
for a lot, you know, probably up until 40. I was very action based, like, okay, what do we need to do? How much do we need to save? Where does it need to go? Like very, just black and white versus just take, for example, you know, now it's like, okay, but if those funds that we are invested in, what are those companies that we are invested in?
And do I support and value what those funds are being invested [00:23:00] in, just as an example, or, um, and so the. The 5d side is like, how do we actually feel with money? So on paper, it would look like air quotes, I'm doing a good job. Right. But if you were to check in with how I felt the 5d, no, I felt very poverty conscious.
It wasn't enough. And so really, when I say the five D is like, what is your relationship? Like with money? How do you feel when I say money? Um, when it comes time to look at your bank accounts or your credit card statement, or, you know, your kid asks you for money, what are those feelings that are coming up inside of you?
And so that, and I think we need to have both, you know, I think the spiritual world wants to talk about. Manifestation and feeling. Yes, that's true. But also the 3D part is like, and what are we doing from the action part of it to create that marriage that feels good to us that is [00:24:00] aligned with our values and, you know, making sure that both of those sides are being nurtured.
and attended to. Mm hmm.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah. I think you tap into something really important there in, you know, with money being like the topic behind what you're saying, but really there's this, you know, we all have our relationship with those two worlds. And so like, I live on Vancouver Island, so it tends to, you know, depending what area you go on the island, there's a lot of like, hippie dippie, like.
what I would have called that a long time ago, right? And being very resistant, resistance to get into. And, um, you know, and then there's the other side as well. And it's like, it is, how do we marry those two things together? And, um, that's definitely been part of my journey in the last while of like my, like noticing my own resistance to do something that I know will [00:25:00] help.
Right. Um, and, and being okay with that. And how do we, like you say, marry the two and find the in between bit that, that feels just a little uncomfortable for us.
Erin: And I think that there's so much stories that we have wrapped up in with money, like with women that I have supported and talked to and, you know, shared my story.
Like we have, we feel a lot of shame and guilt. Right. Right. With money and whether you take money or you take your body or you take your relationship, when you have shame and guilt, there doesn't leave much room for curiosity and for expansion. It's, it's very contracted energy and don't look hide or avoid, um, kind of energy.
And when we. When we are in that space, how can we learn and grow? How can we learn more about money or what we're [00:26:00] doing? Because we, we are immediately like we're wrong. We're doing it wrong. And there isn't that space for us to, you know. Explore maybe how we even want to not even like changing, but like, what would we want our relationship to look like?
And I think that to the spiritual or self development world talks a lot about abundance, but I think that that's too far of a nervous system jump. At least it was for me when I was in survival. Or scarcity going to abundance was too far. Like sufficiency was enough. Like I have enough for today, or I can look at my bank account today and I can sit and feel what I'm feeling in this moment.
And so I would always just, you know, I don't want to say advise, but like, it's okay that we don't have to like walk around and think like we're abundant. Cause if our body doesn't believe that it's just, what are we doing? Right. But having more, I say go slower and like, [00:27:00] what is. What is kind to your nervous system?
You know, maybe, you know, maybe listening to someone like I've had people go and they, you know, have the CPA and they're just, they feel like they've just been talked at for the last hour. It's like, that might not be very kind to your nervous system. Like you might need to be like 15 minutes, dude. Like we're having this conversation.
I want to ask these couple of questions and that's it for today, you know? And so advocating for yourself of like. Understanding where you are in the process and what is, what is a little bit, like you said, outside your comfort zone, but not so much that you just feel like, Oh my gosh, I need to like lay in bed for two days because I just feel so overwhelmed with what I just learned or what we're working on or whatever.
Yeah.
Mel: And what would you say to someone who, you know, right now, times are really tough for a lot of people on the financial aspect of things. They're, you know, they are literally struggling to put food on the table. And, you know, you [00:28:00] use the word space at one point, like there's no space to do this. And I, there's the scarcity mindset that will obviously be there if actually there's literally not enough food to feed your kid.
Um, But like, what's the way out of that? Other than the practical, you know, money side. But like, what's the, what else can we do? How do, how does someone get out of a position into one that is improved, I suppose?
Erin: I, I think the answer is slowly. I know that that's not sexy, right? But like, it is. It's, it's day by day.
I think a lot of people want to fantasize or like, oh, you know, I did this overnight or, you know, all of this. All of that BS, you know that a lot of people preach because that's what gets The views or the listens or the attention. But like [00:29:00] when I was at the very beginning, you know, like this didn't happen overnight for me, this is years in the making.
And so what is one step like just watching, how do you speak, you know, even saying like, yes, I mean, inflation is crazy and. I could go on and on about the banking system and all of the things, but what we focus on, we get more of. So, what do you want to focus on? Like, where do you have, and maybe it not be money right now because, and that's the other thing.
Sometimes I think when we want to try to change our mindset or our body around money, it's too close to home. So, where are you? Already in sufficiency or abundance. Is it in love? Is it in, you know, the air that you breathe? Is it the fact that your body does things for you that you never, ever have to ask it to do?
So like really starting to focus your mind away from money so you can start to. Developing that more [00:30:00] sufficient or abundant mindset on things and then start looking for where because you will find it right. Your brain is going to find it. So if you believe that you can't make more money or you can't, you know, Pay the bills or whatever you're going to.
And I don't like saying this because sometimes people internalize that and say like, they're doing it to themselves, but it's just like what the, what the brain is focused on versus what do you want, what do you want to focus on? It's like I said, at the beginning, it's either moving, you know, towards what you're wanting, or are we moving away, but we're still focusing on what we're moving away from, which you're still focusing on and going to create more of that, you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
Mel: So really choosing, choosing what you want to focus on. Yeah. And therefore moving towards it slowly.
Erin: Yeah. Slowly. I mean, I think that that's a really big one. And I think too, like I said, back to sufficiency, I mean, maybe for someone I have enough food for [00:31:00] today, you know, and, and really what I had to learn, because I didn't grow up in a, we did for like the first five, 10 years of my life with, um, religion, but then that didn't work out so well.
And so we just. We'd never went to church. And so I never believed in a higher power. Like I consider myself highly spiritual, not religious at all. And one of the things that I had to really form a relationship with, whatever you want to call it, divine God, spirit, source, whatever it is, your higher power.
Like there is something that is higher in power than us. And like, we are co creating and collaborating and developing that relationship because I did used to believe I had to do it. All on my own, which that felt really heavy and it felt really responsible, like overly responsible
Mel: is this trust that like it will work out somehow.
That is not all on your shoulders. Like, not only did I have to do everything myself for me, I had to do it for my family and literally the world in my eyes. [00:32:00] I was like, I remember my therapist being like, that sounds like it'd be really heavy to hold on your shoulder. I was like, huh? Yeah, I guess so. It's like, what happens if you drop it?
I guess I like the world ends. Like, that's what happened. Does it? Does it end? Right? Um, and there's this whole, yeah, that's a long journey to figure out, like, what that looks like for each individual, especially if you haven't grown up in religion, which I haven't, um, in my family either. So, uh, yeah, finding out what that means to you, this belief that, you know, That there's something there.
And the other word that came to mind while you were speaking, um, is gratitude. You know, it sounds like you're, you're describing a practice of gratitude. And not just in the sense of like, so I used to have a real issue with the word gratitude. And I think a lot of listeners were probably the same. So I've said this before, but I will repeat it again.
It's not the, you should be grateful. No, that's not what we're talking about. Right? That doesn't make anybody grateful. That's a black [00:33:00] mindset. That's not, that's, yeah, it's not going to make you feel good. But more like, what can I see around me that is good, so that it starts to put your focus on that, as you said.
Like, then we start to choose to focus on the good by showing that. And I'm only just, and this is like, quite a lot of work, um, and like months and probably years of work. I now have a gratitude practice. that I will call, okay, let's do gratitude now, where before I would just trick myself into doing it by saying, oh, what's good, you know?
Erin: Yeah. Two things to that, because one, I don't ever, I think, here we go back to the self development world, like, I love it, and then I don't, but like, don't ever do anything because somebody says you should do something, right? Like, if there's a should, ought to, have to, then question it. Um, and I also think going back to, like, we were talking in anger, sometimes, I was just talking to my mom about this.
I'm like, sometimes we can't have compassion until we feel the anger, right? Like it's almost like forcing, like if your [00:34:00] kid, you know, did something and then you're like forcing them to apologize, but they're not sorry, it's kind of the same thing that we're doing to ourselves. And so if you're not ready to feel grateful, That's not a problem.
Like it's okay. Like that, that, that, that I think is an invitation to go deeper. Like, why am I not, what am I frustrated about? What am I angry about? And that, that needs to come up because I call it like, you're just covering up shit, right? Like if you're trying to put grateful on, but you were angry, like, Vibrationally, anger is what you're emitting.
So feel what needs to be felt there, you know. So once you feel that, because I think we can totally bypass our emotions or we're taught to bypass our emotions. So don't ever feel grateful when you're feeling like feel what needs to be felt and come up and then get to that point of, like I said, I mean, if money is too much of a because it was for me.
It was like, Oh my goodness. My heart beats [00:35:00] every single day. Second, and I don't even have to tell it like the color that my eyes can see the green, or, you know, just, what is it that is kind of almost like a neutral thing for you that you can get behind that you can start appreciating and maybe grateful as to, you know, Strong of a word for some people, but like, what do you appreciate?
Do you appreciate that your spouse does things for you without asking? Do you appreciate that time right before bed with your kids that you get to snuggle and read and, you know, because. And, and not from places like other people don't get to do that, but just having that appreciation of like, what do I have that I used to want?
Like, because all of us, where we are right now, we used to want where we are, but we forget that, right? Like the mind's like already onto the next thing, but there are things in your house or with your body or in your relationship or with your kids. It's like, [00:36:00] That you wanted at some point in time. And so remembering what, what that, what those are and then showing that appreciation for it.
And it's not a like, let's just do this as a checklist. That's the other thing, like feel it in your body. And I call it grafting sometimes. I don't know if that's the word that gets used, but you know, I couldn't feel grateful for my money. So I had to like actually feel what gratitude felt like in my body for something else.
And then I could use it to start to understand what it could feel like to feel like that for my money.
Mel: I love that. And as you say, you know, feel the other stuff first, like, don't just like repress that by bringing in the good. We're not saying be happy all the time. Like, you know, there's, there's stuff in life that we should be angry about. There's stuff in life that we should be, not shoulds, but that we will get, we're saying that we can't feel [00:37:00] all sorts of things about, um, and, you know, find a healthy way.
To get that out and, you know, journaling or whatever isn't for everybody. It might be my favorite. Honestly, when I'm in full on, like, it's right here in my throat, I drive in my car and I scream. Yep. Just by myself. Like, nobody's there. They can't tell what I'm doing. Um, and it feels so good. It's releasing it.
It's literally asking to come out.
Erin: Yeah, I think the biggest thing I heard this at my daughter's school and I know the parent was he was trying to, to show like he was saying, I just want my kids to be happy. And that's what my dad used to say too. And I think I know what he meant by that. But it's like, we really want to feel fulfilled, right?
Like happiness isn't the goal because you literally can't feel happy all the time. We're a human with emotions. And we get upset over shit and that's just how it goes. Right. Like, that's just part of the human experience. So not happiness, but fulfillment. And like, what are we, and are [00:38:00] we able to, like, I tell my kid, like teaching you to, that it's okay to feel all of the range of emotions that you have.
And that all of those emotions are welcome. Like that's, I think the goal that we want to work towards not. I want to be happy and I want to make sure, you know, like nobody knows that, you know, I'm, you know, could cry at any moment. It's like, no. And I mean, like I said at the very beginning, more women to talk about money.
It's the same thing. It's like more women to say, Hey, you know what, I understand what you're going through. And like, I've been there or I'm currently there or I hear I'm here for you. I support you, you know, like that. That's huge too. Definitely.
Mel: Yeah. Sina and others. Let's talk about it. Let's get it out there.
For sure. Um, okay, so the other kind of area of money that came to my mind is in the entrepreneur world. So, some of the people listening will be like [00:39:00] myself and You know, we have to decide, like, what to charge for literally, like, our gift, right? And that is really stinking hard, um, when we have, you know, I've done a lot of the work that we've talked about, but not necessarily related to money, so those stories still sit and they play.
And, for example, um, just last night, I was going through, What I'm going to be launching this courage club in January with my husband and it's kind of a membership style. You pay like a monthly fee and I was saying like, like, I want to make sure I'm setting myself up to not like to give value. to not overwhelm people, but to also get enough value in return for, for what I'm giving.
I'm like, right now we're, we're only talking to an X amount of money per month. And he's like, I am not the right person to talk to about this because I think that's a lot of money. And I'm like, I can tell you [00:40:00] that that's not a lot of money. Right. Um, so, um, And that's, that's me actually being able to say that.
That's a step in the right direction. Yes, I was going to say, good job, Mel. It's in my brain. I'm like, oh, like, does someone want to pay this? Am I giving them enough? And I know that I tend to like, just give too much because, um, because of the story. So I think my question is around, How do you support someone who's in that type of position who needs to literally value the gift that they're trying to bring to the world?
Sometimes, which is actually really easy for them. Oh, that's the biggest thing.
Erin: Right? When it's so easy and charging for it. Yeah. That's my story. That's
Mel: one of my stories. Right? Totally. And I think it's a very common story in women entrepreneurs, right? Because we've, yeah, we've, you know, been taught that essentially.
Yeah. And devalued our, our gifts and yeah.
Erin: I think [00:41:00] going back to how we've been taught, I was just having this conversation with a woman I walked with yesterday. I said, we've been taught to charge what we're worth, but what we are worth has no price on it. Like it has nothing to do with what you charge.
Now your skills. your years of experience, the value that all of that combined, like what the transformation that you can help someone or what they're receiving, there is a perceived value on that. There is a number there. And I, I think it all comes back to, you know, I think a lot of us have grown up to, like, you had to earn.
You had to earn love. You had to earn your keep, you know, like that whole mindset. And so obviously working through stories like that, but it's recognizing like, I think too, I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like in the coaching world, it's like just gotten to this point. [00:42:00] Like I've paid some pretty high ticket.
Amounts and I haven't gotten, and I know some people will say, well, you always come for what you get. That is true. And also, you know, what was promised wasn't necessarily delivered. And so there's that as well. And I think it's one, are you willing to pay what you're asking for? Because I think that like, Oh, you need to charge more.
You need to charge more. It's like, here we go back to nervous system. Like, what is it a no brainer for you that you're like, I would pay that in a heartbeat. And if someone ever. argued with that, then they are definitely not my client. Um, I think that's part of it. And I think also of getting used to, it's like anything, right?
It's a practice. It's a skill getting used to being okay with charging for something that comes easily because we have been brought up. Like you have to work hard for money. You have to [00:43:00] earn your keep. You have to do these things. You're being lazy versus. Recognizing what is the ripple effect that you're having on people, not just your one client, right?
Like it's literally a ripple effect.
Mel: Mm hmm. Yeah, so I'm hearing this like this connection with like worthiness, right? If we don't feel worthy then, then because as you say, we've been taught to charge what we're worth, then like, we're not going to charge much if we don't think we're worthy of that, right?
Erin: Yeah.
Mel: Um,
Erin: And receiving, I think a lot of women aren't great at receiving and that's, that is a skill set. That is a, when I say skill set, what I mean is like, that's a practice, right? Like you, women. are not the best receivers. I mean, if you, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I would go and ask my dad and my uncle for raises.
[00:44:00] And it was like, I was having to like, come to them with all of the reasons why, you know, it's almost like you have to plead your case. Um, and the receiving part of like, we get, it gets because it's so uncomfortable because we have been so practiced at. Giving, receiving feels uncomfortable. So maybe you don't start with receiving, you know, maybe the money is a little bit too far out there, but maybe you start when your friend is like, Hey, I'll pay for the latte.
You let them pay for the latte or, you know, Hey, I'll pick your kids up from school today or whatever it is like you, you practice receiving and here's the deal. It's going to feel uncomfortable. Like this is what we, I don't think we talk about like, Oh, get comfortable doing the uncomfortable. The uncomfortable stuff for us moms is.
Being laying on the couch, watching Netflix while your kids are running around. The uncomfortable stuff is, you know what? My husband's going to figure out what dinner is. I'm going to just sit here and read my book. You know, the [00:45:00] uncomfortable is I'm really good at what I do. And this feels really uncomfortable to charge this.
And I'm still going to charge it anyways.
Mel: Definitely. And that receiving, I, I actually wrote, wrote down practice receiving because it like relates to so many other things in my life right now. Right. Like that is, and being, and, and with the women that I'm working with, it's practicing me able to say, thank you. That's it. Yeah. All your life. Yep.
Right. Just thank you.
Erin: And recognizing like giving and receiving is a symbiotic relationship. Like don't you love to pay someone that has done such an amazing job for you? Yeah. Like, I love that. I love that, you know, and like, when you don't let them pay you what they love to pay you, then you're, I don't like to use the word taking away from them, but like, when I want to pay for someone at dinner and someone's like fighting me on it, it's like, that was enjoyable to me.
I wanted to do that for you. Like, you don't, they don't get [00:46:00] to receive either by them giving to you.
Mel: Definitely. Okay, I could, like, bring up ten other things that are just for me right now, but instead of doing that, I'm going to keep us to time. And perhaps I'll just pay you to do it another time. But, uh, um, I think everything we have talked about in this conversation is so, so important to women and our listeners.
And, you know, I encourage them to Like stop and check in with yourself. Like, how do I feel about money, about asking for money, about receiving money, about holding money? Like I having it, I'm very light. I have lots of stories around about having money, you know, that probably stopped me from getting to the next level of whatever that might be.
Um, you know, just checking in with ourselves to see, to see what that is. And let's say they've done that. So what else could they do? Like, what's, [00:47:00] if you could give a tip right now, other, like, the obvious tip is hire you or another coach to, like, help you work through the, um, work through the uncomfortableness and the stories.
But, you know, before that, there might be still a step. a tip or a step, like once they notice the stories, what do they do?
Erin: Yeah. So I think like anything, it's awareness, right? It's actually noticing and Not the best advice. Slow down even more. Or I should say, it is really great advice, and it's not the, like, talked about advice.
But slow down even more. In order to notice these things, you have to be present. You have to slow down. So, okay, so now you know. Okay. This is the relationship that I'm at. Okay. What do I want it to look like? And who do I know in my circle or even people outside of my circle and what are they like? Start focusing here.
We go back to law focus. So if you were talking about earlier, start focusing [00:48:00] on and, and gathering evidence because the brain likes to have evidence for. What you're trying to believe like that's why affirmations because our bodies don't necessarily believe it and we don't have any evidence of that. So I would say start there.
Um, of like, what do you want to do? I also like, I don't know if your readers, um, listeners like reading like, um, I can put a couple of. Books in there that they can read and that they have like some journal prompts and things of that sort that they can. And I also think that it's not just a mindset thing.
So like in your body, when you start saying, because here's the other thing we have to think about, we don't have what we want because there is probably some underlying fears there that's keeping us from not having it. It's not a problem. Right. Like I have like my, I broke out in a rash today. Well, [00:49:00] I sent an email to somebody and I spoke up and I said exactly from a very loving place, but I noticed I sent that yesterday and I woke up this morning.
I'm like, Oh, I have this rash on my neck. Okay, here we go. Totally. Okay. Because I have a story of like, you're too harsh Aaron. You say what you want. And it came from the energy when I was younger, I was angry, but now I can say what I want and it can be from the energy of love and compassion, but I can still honor.
what I'm, what I'm feeling. So I would ask myself, okay, if you want to either have your business at X or you want to have X amount of money, or you just want to have a different relationship, what would change that you might be? Maybe a little afraid of what would you have to actually change in your behaviors that you may not really be willing to do right now, which is okay.
Here we go back to awareness, but just recognizing like, what am I still not okay with, you know, doing or saying or being and feeling, and what are those emotions and where can [00:50:00] I start practicing feeling those. More often. Yeah,
Mel: so noticing the discomfort and sitting in it. Yeah,
Erin: and I think it's easy to I think you know That's easy to say but like what does that feel like here?
I go back to like, okay So if you want to let's say receive, you know, we were talking about receiving. Okay What are two or three things that I can do this week and like actually write them down and like, start doing them. I think the brain or the ego likes to stay muddy and cloudy because then we don't have to actually do the thing versus getting really clear.
Like, no, what are some exercises that are going to make me feel very uncomfortable when my child's like, Hey mom, come play with me and I'm reading my book, I will in 15 minutes. Is that what I'm willing to do? Or, you know, just, it's going to be different for every parent, but like, what are those things that.
You're not doing right now because guilt might come in or shame might come in, or there might be some fear [00:51:00] and, and choosing like actively choosing to do those things. Yeah, love it.
Mel: Love it. Love it. Okay, so If people are like this is amazing I love firstly actually before I even go into that I love how like I don't know if it's the right word candid you are With it, you know, like this is the reality Let's not pretend that we can just go and journal and meditate and everything will be better Let's not pretend that you're gonna make a million dollars overnight if you follow this So there are a lot of people, and this is one of the top three tips that I have in my back pocket right here, right?
Let's, you know, you're real, and I really appreciate that about you. And there honestly are not many people that I've experienced or run into as of yet. Although I have lots of stories around it, so maybe that's what I noticed. That are in the money world who are willing to you know, be real about that. So, um, I show my gratitude to you [00:52:00] for not only showing up for me to have this conversation, but also for our listeners to, you know, be able to, to take their next little step.
Um, thank you. So, yeah. And if people are curious and want to get in touch with you for whatever the reason, um, they're just really intrigued by what you're talking about, where would they go?
Erin: They can go to my website, um, generate a life well lived. com and I have been doing some webinars and I'm just going to put those up under resource because I'm like exactly what you said.
It's like, where's the stuff that I can do the work by myself without going and working with someone. Yeah. So I've kind of gone through and, and done, um, it's more human design based, but it talks about money. And so, um, those will be up on my website shortly. And also there's a, like a prerecorded workshop that I did with another colleague, how we talk about, um, because I'm really passionate about women trusting themselves again, their intuition, following their [00:53:00] intuition with money.
So we did just a four part series where you can learn about what is your type, what kind of decision making, and then how to use that with money. So they can go and do that as well. Nice. Love it. Excellent. Thank you so much for joining today. Thank you, Mel. I appreciate it.
Mel: That is it, folks. This has been Mel Findlater on Permission to Be Human, the podcast, and I am so glad that you have joined us here today and hope that you have taken away some tidbits that will help you go away, connect with your big audacious dream, and make that massive impact in the world that you are dying to make.
If you liked today's episode, please, please, please like it, share it. Think of one person. Think of one person that you think would also like it [00:54:00] and send it on over to them. Let's get this out there and more moms feeling like themselves. Inspired, dreaming big, and out there being them. Please do head on over to find me on Facebook with permission to be human or Instagram or you can even Off me an email and say hello.
Have permission to be human, always, at gmail. com. Say hello and let me know that you listened. What did you like about it? I would love to hear. If you didn't like it, I don't really want to know. Ha ha, just kidding, you can share that if you want. I would love to know, however, who you are. Let's connect.
Let's find out what you want more of. I want to hear from you and I want to make it what would be useful to you. As always, remember that you have permission to dream big, permission to feel big, [00:55:00] and permission to be you. You have complete and full permission to be human.
For real, you do.
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