Episode 73 Jena
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Mel: [00:00:00] Welcome to Permission to be Human, the podcast. I'm your host Mel Findlater, mother, coach, and curator of Permission to be Human, the company and community. If you're a mom, know a mom, or want to be a mom, and you crave getting out in the world to make a difference, then you're in the right place. This is a space for moms like you to connect with yourself, your purpose, and your big audacious dreams.
Because when you feel your best, you can better you, your family, and the wider world. Let's do this.
I am so excited to have Jena Ponti Jochius join us again on the podcast. She was with us way back in episode 10, over a year ago. And that episode was amazing all about nature and how it can support us and how we can design a space that really taps into. The sensory needs of our [00:01:00] children, as well as ourselves.
And this time we're really chatting about so many things. One we're checking in with her a year later. How is Jena doing with the business? What's her big audacious dream now. And we really tap into the challenges and the belief system that came into play as she grew herself over the last year. And then we also go into a conversation about sensory needs of us as adults. And how we can really tap into them. And get back into our body and how important that is to live a fulfilling life.
So Jena is such an amazing woman. She runs a business called N is for nature play. Do you go and check it out in all the various places online and her big audacious dream is to have an ultra successful business and support as many children and families as she can with health, happiness, and connection through sensory rich natural plate and learning. She also dreams of providing beautifully for her daughters, giving them the kind of childhood they need to grow into the best versions of themselves. [00:02:00] Oh, she also wants to travel the world, have some freedom and all the other fun things that life has to throw at us. If you do enjoy the conversations today, Jena has an amazing offer.
If you're reading this right. When this episode comes out on September 5th to seventh, 20, 24.
She is running a free workshop series called neuro based nature. Play. And it looks amazing. So do go and check it out. If you at all enjoy Jena today, it is such an amazing offer. Totally complimentary. So. Go find her Google it N is for Nature Play. And you'll find all the details. And about her and the workshop there. All right.
Enjoy the conversation.
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Mel: Ponti Jauchius back with us again. I'm so excited to have you here, Jena. You were here, I think it was pretty much a year ago, right near the beginning of this [00:03:00] podcast. Episode 10, How Nature Relates to Your Big Audacious Dream is the one that you were on and we chatted all things sensory needs for kids and how we can design a space that will help meet those needs out in nature.
I think about that stuff all the time now. And it was so nice to have that chat and I'm excited to see how we can develop that conversation into adults and just to check in.
Reflecting on a Year of Growth
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Mel: Like it's a year on, how the heck are you?
Jena: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks Mel for having me on again. It's such a, it's always such an honor and a pleasure to talk with you.
Yeah, it's been a year since we chatted last and, things are just, things are just so good. I have to say, like, business wise, I love Having my own business and doing my own thing in the way that I want to do it. Because you know, as we all have our own unique voices and messages and the [00:04:00] way we express ourselves in the world.
And I finally feel like I'm able to do that. So I really couldn't be happier.
Mel: Yeah. And I love that. I, you know, that I finally feel like I can do that. Right. Yeah. And I'm curious how you would describe like what's changed between now and then both externally from the business, but I mean, really in terms of, yeah, it's all,
Jena: it's all internal.
It's all internal.
Embracing Uniqueness and Value
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Jena: Um, the first one was, just acknowledging that I have a unique thing to share. I have unique experiences and perspectives and ways that I view the world that is, I mean, it's unique and every person has this. And so just acknowledging that and then, knowing that the, the, my, all of my expertise and all my experience and all the years I've put into the work that I do [00:05:00] and my unique message has tremendous value.
Yeah. So I mean that and just because I exist on the planet and you exist on the planet, we all have, we're like, we're all so valuable. And so we would just have to embrace and celebrate. Our uniqueness and I think that's changed and giving myself permission to be my own boss, you know, that that's a, you know, a confidence thing and a worthiness thing has, I mean, that's, those are probably the big key ingredients that has changed in, in, in my, in my life.
So, so good. And it's so good for my kid. Like, I'm really proud of myself because my kids are watching this transformation too. So that's priceless.
Mel: Yeah. I love that. And I love that, you know, it's so important for, I think, us to talk about this journey because it's taken that year and it's okay if it takes the next person that year.
Right? Yeah. I could have heard these same words and [00:06:00] I'd be inspired to maybe take some action a year ago and, and I probably did hear similar words, right? And Yeah. Thanks. It was easy for me to look to look at someone who's further on in their journey and be like, Oh, well, like, I don't know how they're doing that.
Or like,
Jena: yeah, what do I have to say?
Mel: Like, I'm gonna listen to that. And you get this imposter syndrome. Right? Yeah. And, you know, I think This is a great conversation because it's so often not talked about the fact that even in that year and you can imagine 10 years from now, how different that will be again in your inner growth, right?
And I love that, you know, permission to be your own boss. And both from a business perspective, but in life, life, right. Yeah. Yeah.
Jena: And there's, there's so many things and I apologize if I just interrupted you but it [00:07:00] popped into my head.
Taking Action and Overcoming Resistance
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Jena: There's so many things throughout my life that I have kind of shied away from doing because I didn't think that, Oh, you know, who am I to say this or no one's going to listen to me.
But I have like, just in the last couple of months, actually, I have walked through some serious. Yeah. Points of resistance and visibility and getting my message out there. And I have found that action is the medicine for how we want to grow.
Mel: Just do
Jena: it. Just go do it. You're not going to learn by thinking about it.
You're not going to grow by thinking about it. You're growing to, you're going to grow by doing it. And it's never perfect because perfect is an illusion. So, just go do it. And see what happens and have fun.
Mel: Yeah, I love that. And it's, it's completely right.
The Journey of Starting a Podcast
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Mel: I can really relate from, [00:08:00] you know, just even this podcast.
If we look at that, I didn't know how to make a podcast when I started this. I knew enough to like, get it started behind the scenes. I'm like, okay, here's the simplest way of making this happen, basically. And I knew that if I overthought it, I wouldn't do it. I knew that if I'm like, first, I need to learn about SEO and like, which means search engine optimization.
And that's probably the only thing I could still tell you about it. Right. Or I need to learn how to do this and I have to do video and I have to do, you know, all the things that of course would have been beneficial if I did right from the beginning, but it would have stopped me from getting into action and getting into action each and every week and putting this podcast out.
You know, I've changed a lot in my confidence in the last year as well. You know, I still sit down though, especially if it's, a con, like a solo episode. And I'm like, what am I going to say? Like who's going [00:09:00] to listen to this? And then I feel really good afterwards. I'm like, yeah, that worked. Especially if it's an interview because I get to, you know, vibe with the energy of the person on the other side.
But, you know, I think it's important. Like you say, to just go and give it a go and be messy and be murky. I was just telling you an example earlier that I was really inspired by some of the work that you're doing, which you should tell us about in a second. And we had a conversation one morning and then I was like, Oh, like we started this online thing at about the same time.
That's really interesting. And look what you're going and doing now. And it inspired me right afterwards to go, message my local Facebook group. I wanted to start up like a courage club for women who want to go out and build those muscles, the courage muscle in particular, not other muscles, and you know, just try new things, have fun together.
And [00:10:00] I've been thinking about it for at least the last year. Right. I've been talking to people in different iterations of it in my mind for ages. And then I was just like, you know, I'm just going to put this out there. And the response that I got was really good. And it was actually good because it wasn't perfect.
And people told me that they're like, so in one section on my post, I said, I could list all the reasons I'm credible right now, but I'm not going to. Here's what you actually need to know. I want to meet people. I want to do fun things. I want to build my brain muscle and I want to find some people to do it with me.
And I had people respond back and say, that's what got me to click yes. Right? Yeah. Because they want to see, people want to be with humans. They want to be with other people, not, you know, and it's actually made me more nervous along the way as I've been building it now to like make a sales page that is actually like looks more professional because I'm like, Oh, maybe they don't want it to look professional, but they do.
That's been totally fine. But [00:11:00] Yeah, I, I think going back to your main point there is, you know, you just go and, and do it and actually it can work in your favor to not be perfect.
Jena: Yeah, I mean, I think that's where a lot of the magic happens, or we allow it to come through when we don't try to box it all in with our logical brain.
Mel: Yeah.
Jena: So, yeah. That's so awesome. So,
Mel: logical brain.
Creating Spaces for Sensory Needs
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Mel: That leads, I think, perfectly into actually what a lot of your work is around, you know, we are a whole body and our body brain, I don't think that's a thing, but I'm going to call it that. Right? Like our body brain. And our senses and how that all works.
So give us a really brief discussion, uh, description first of like, What is the work you're doing now? Certainly. And then we can kind of maybe lead into like, how, what are sensory needs and how are they important to us adults as well?
Jena: Oh boy. Yes. Okay. [00:12:00] So, I'm a landscape architect and I've been in the industry for almost 25 years and that whole time, I have been designing children's play nature based.
Play learning and therapeutic environments. And so I, I create places like, or I help people create places like nature play areas or outdoor classrooms or a green school yards, uh, sensory gardens, uh, custom playscapes for kids with special needs. So I I've done it all. I've worked with all different sorts of, Developmental needs in, in the age range of childhood, zero to 18.
I've even designed a couple sensory gardens for middle school kids and, uh, alternative high school. So it's been really, really fun, but early childhood is my jam. My business, my company is called N is for nature, but nature play. N is for nature play. I'm based in Spokane, [00:13:00] Washington, but I work all over the place because, you know, remote, we can do it anything remotely now.
Right. And actually for. Almost as long as I've been in my entire career, I've worked from the standpoint of the senses because I got into understanding autism back in, it was like 2004, 20 years ago. And in studying autism and how I can bring that to my work to support kids with, with neurodiversities, I came to realize just how important the nervous system is.
And the, the communication that our nervous systems are constantly having with our environment and how that affects our quality of life and well being and how, how we learn and how we relate to others and connect and all of these things I have come to discover that the nervous system. Is the sole mechanism through which we have our life experience.
And so I [00:14:00] designed spaces and environments that support the diverse wiring of children's nervous systems and the adults that work with the kids while they're in the space. And so, uh, it's really fun. It's really unique. I don't know of a lot of other designers that have my specific approach and the depth to which that I do it.
So it's really fun. I'm always learning. I. Each project is unique, there's no two that are the same, because there's no two same groups of people in the space, or groups of children, so I, I just, I love what I do so much. And, I have now just, actually recently, just this summer, started talking about why adults.
The Importance of Sensory Awareness for Adults
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Jena: Need to reconnect with their senses more too. And there's a lot of reasons why we can go into that, but so now it's like it's not just about the kids. It's about us too, because we're busy [00:15:00] having our own lives and we deserve beautifully crafted, high quality lives. It comes down to our senses. We need to be able to support kids and create the types of environments that they need.
And how do we do that when we're disconnected from our own senses? So
Mel: yeah,
Jena: it's, it's wild. It's
Mel: fun. Firstly, I mean, you know this, I'm so excited about what you're doing as someone who works in both the nature space and has worked in the preschool space as well. It's, it's so needed and I think, you know, as you're speaking there, the thought that comes to my mind is around.
You know, it's By doing that, we're starting to see all of us as like whole humans, right? It's not about whatever the behavior is that's happening in that moment. For any of us, adult or child, it's about like our nervous system is reacting in a certain way because, uh, because we are a whole human and we're picking [00:16:00] up on the sound in the corner or the vibe in the kid next to us or the, you know, anything, right?
And it just fits so well with the whole permission to be human kind of concept that, you know, I'm, I'm right on board and will always be your cheerleader in the background supporting me whenever I can. And I love that you went into this concept of, you know, Like us adults need this as well, right? We are our nervous system, and going back to your permission to be your own boss, that's like the other link I was making.
I was like, well actually, instead of allowing our nervous systems to basically be the boss of us, It's like, if we see it more holistically, it's about actually how can we stay in tune with it? How can we, how can we be the boss because we notice what's happening and we can decide what to do with that, right?
Yeah.
Jena: And I'll, and I'll, I'll dovetail with that, it's, [00:17:00] in my life at least, it's like my logical brain wants to be the boss. We spend so much time up in our brains, analyzing things and. If we actually, because our brains aren't meant to run our lives, that our brains are our computers, right? Our bodies actually, our bodies are a highly intelligent, antenna, our nervous system is.
And so if we actually used our bodies the way that they're meant to be used. We would be living very different lives. It's, it's our thinking. And we
Mel: would feel more in control, right? Oh my gosh. We would feel more, less kind of taken over by those emotions or things that come our way.
Jena: Yeah, because we're busy analyzing those emotions instead of feeling those emotions.
And those emotions are coming from one of our sensory systems, the interception system, which is the eight system. And [00:18:00] if we could just feel those, like, you know, those kind of the crusty emotions that we don't really like to feel all the time, just feel them through and let them go. Then we can get back to balance.
But we, we spend too many, too much time analyzing it and then we get stuck and then that emotion and that sensation gets stuck in our body. And then we're wondering why we're triggered all the time. So yeah. Yeah.
Mel: How do we unstuck? Unstick. Unstuck.
Jena: Yeah, unstuck. Get unstuck. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, if we, if we spent more time, quieting the mind and getting into the body and actually savoring the sensory experiences that we're having at every moment of our waking day.
That's just that's like the biggest to me like that's the biggest self care that a person can do. Yeah, so Because we came into this lifetime to experience [00:19:00] it and if we're stuck in our brain all the time, we're not experiencing it. Mm hmm so yeah, the the balance needs to come back to Realizing that the and there's actually a term for the body as a distinct a distinct creation from the mind.
And it's the, the word is somatic. So like the somatic experience of our lives, letting the body feel what's around us. And it can give us so much more information than the brain can by itself as the logical thinking brain.
Mel: Yeah. And as you say, you know, that somatic experience, that bodily awareness is like the first step.
Practical Tips for Sensory Awareness
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Mel: So, you know, We're talking about this and and I'm all like, yeah, yeah, and I can almost hear like someone listening going Yeah, but how right so and how and I think like and I'll ask for your your answer to that question in a second I think my answer is You could even put a little [00:20:00] timer on to remind yourself to do this like every once an hour first or whatever it is to simply stop for a second and be like What am I feeling in my body right now?
Where are my feet? Are they on the ground? Like, do I feel tension? Where is that? What does it feel like? What color would I make it? What, you know, what texture is it? So if I'm anxious, for example, I'm much more aware now, but before I was aware of what was going on, I would notice actually That I had a stomach ache and I'd be like, why does my stomach hurt?
And then I'd be like, oh, I'm anxious. And I had no idea because I missed all the other signs that I was anxious before that. And I went, okay, well, what am I anxious about? And my logical brain tried to turn it into something, but you know, I think we all hold these different things in different parts of our body.
And as soon as we can acknowledge them, as you say, then, Then we let them be, and we don't try to control [00:21:00] them. We just kind of be like, oh, that's interesting. Oh, that's interesting that my stomach hurts. Oh, that's interesting that, like, I feel stiff this morning. Yeah. No, no assumptions on that. Just,
Jena: huh.
Yeah.
Mel: So yeah, my, in terms of how I'd say set a timer, like my physio used to have me set a timer once an hour to like engage my core because I have no lower core whatsoever. And I think it's like the perfect example of something you can do. My little timer went off and nobody else even, even needs to know what I'm doing because like, it's not visible.
Right. And just, if you can manage and you're setting, close your eyes for a second, check in. How's my body? What's happening? Yeah. Yeah.
Jena: Yeah, I, I do think the routine, building that into your day is really is really beneficial. Morning routines can, like, right when you get up is there some way that, you know, a lot of people do meditation, a lot of [00:22:00] people do yoga, a lot of people go for a run.
And if you can do those without these things, these earbuds and these phones and the music and the distractions that we fill our lives with, that is, that's going to help. So one, eliminate the distraction, make it a routine, set a timer, all of those things, and then pick things that you know you really love to do.
Do you love to walk with the dog? Do you love to hike? Do you love to drink your tea outside or your coffee or whatever it is? And then when you do those things. Really do those things like no other distractions. If you like your kids are like, they can be the biggest teachers in this because when they are left to their own devices, they are, they can totally get into their activities and it is a full bodied experience.
Their logical brain hasn't come online yet, so they are full bodied and they can really model for us the, what, how we can approach this. So the how is, watch your kids [00:23:00] for the how, and then. You know, do what you need to do during your day. It's going to look different for everybody. And it should. So whatever feels comfortable.
And then, you know, just kind of extend that time. And, be very intentional. And actually do the thing. Don't, don't get, don't allow in distractions for as long as possible. And that includes, uh, when you do quiet your body. When you do these things, your thinking brain will come in and go, Oh, we need to go to the grocery store because we're making this for dinner tonight.
What are we going to do for tomorrow? So your, your brain will come in with all sorts of distractions because it doesn't want to be quiet.
Mel: Yeah.
Jena: So that, and that's okay. I think the key thing is that that's okay.
Mel: Right. It's totally okay. Like, Oh, I don't know how to do this. And like, Oh, I'm just bad at this.
Like I give up. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's actually you doing it. Right. You're doing it right. Okay. Brain. Thank you. [00:24:00] And that's enough. And then start again. And the practice isn't quieting your brain. The practice is acknowledging your brain and turning it back off again. Yeah. Like it doesn't turn off, but you know what I mean.
Like, thanks thought. Like, it's, it's all good. I'm good. Yeah.
Jena: Yeah. Bring your brain on board. You know, they're in the, they're in the back seat for now. You know, you don't want to, you don't want to shut them out.
Embracing All Emotions
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Jena: Cause they're always there. Just like, just like those, the emotions we don't like to feel.
There's nothing that's good or bad, right? Joy and anger and fear and, you know, whatever. Those are, those are, that's information, right? It's not good or bad. That's just part of our life experience. And, and so if we can just embrace those things. Oh, I'm feeling, you know, you mentioned the pit in your stomach.
Okay. So that's information about how I'm feeling about this moment or the situation I'm in. It's just information. Thank you, body, for telling me about this. So, yeah.
The Practice of Simply Noticing
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Mel: Simply noticing. That's it. [00:25:00] That's the practice. Yeah. Not analyzing. Just noticing. It's very hard. And very simple, all at the same time. Yep.
Jena: Exactly. Exactly. And the thing is, it is so simple.
Training Yourself Back Into Your Body
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Jena: We forget to do it all the time. We just, we've been trained out of it. And, and, and it is fun. It's a journey to train yourself back into it. And I've actually been training myself back into my body,
For over a year now. And it is a process. It is not easy.
There are so many life distractions and things that I think I should be doing rather than sitting outside with my, you know, bare feet on the ground or, or taking a walk in the woods. There's so many other things that I think I should be doing. Yeah. But what I'm doing in that moment is so much more important.
Mel: Yeah, exactly.
Modeling Mindfulness for Children
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Mel: And so most of the people listening to this podcast are either mothers or do a mothering role of some sort in the [00:26:00] world. And. You know, I think this is probably one of the, the best gifts we could give our children is to do it for ourselves and take it to the next level if you want and let them see you do it for yourself.
You know, don't necessarily tell them to do it. Just let them see you do it. And then they'll be like, Oh, what are you doing mama? Like, that's interesting. And you could even speak it out. Like, Oh, I just like, I feel, I feel something. I just want to take a second here. Oh, like. My legs are warm, or my stomach's tight, or my heart is racing.
That's really interesting, right? And that's it. And they're like, Oh, we do that? Yeah. And I think that's one of the biggest gifts we can give them is to show that that's a normal thing and to check in. And then maybe perhaps they might start to do it themselves. And we can support that throughout that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jena: That's, that's very [00:27:00] true.
Environmental Influences on Our Nervous System
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Jena: Um, yeah, there's you know, with me, my, The work that I do is, is focused on our environments and. What you just talked about, there's actually environmental influences. It's not just, what we're thinking about that influences those feelings in our body. Sometimes it's the environment and there's something about our environment, whether it's for, for kids with neurodiversities, there might be some overstimulation or, or adults with neurodiversities or adults with sensitivities or sensory differences.
We, we're all different. But there might be something about your environment that could be triggering something in your nervous system that tells you what to do. It, that's, it's unsafe that you're, it's, it's going into survival mode. There's something about there. Maybe there's too much noise or something, or there's too many visual distractions or whatever it is.
And your nervous system goes into survival mode and then you can't, you can't do anything like it. You're, [00:28:00] you're not as effective as a human as you could be. And so you can actually start to tune into your environment through your senses and say, you know, how do I feel here? Okay. Do I feel safe? Do I feel like, do I feel inspired?
Do I feel like moving and happy and, you know, and so, and if you're not, then can you pinpoint through your senses an aspect about your environment that isn't jiving with you? And how might you adjust that to be more in alignment with your nervous system wiring so that you're not in a survival state, so that you're in a thriving state, which is where we, where our bodies.
regardless of our wiring, our bodies are always striving to get there.
Mel: Yeah.
Understanding Sensory Sensitivities
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Mel: And I think the simple act of noticing that, that something is a little loud. Oh, I can tell that my body doesn't really like that. Like that's me. I'm highly sensitive to sound. And sometimes I can get out of that situation right away, and [00:29:00] sometimes I can't.
So, then I'm like, okay, the first question is, can I take action? Maybe not. And then there might be actually, the fact that I noticed calms it a little bit. It's like, oh, that's interesting. Okay. And then I, I know that like in five minutes you're going to be able to walk out or in five minutes we can, whatever it is, or like, you know, as a mother, it's very difficult to have your sensory needs be sound because if you have a child who is a very loud, uh, they express their emotions very loudly.
then that, that's very triggering. Right. And I've been looking into quite a lot of you know, the highly sensitive concept and how our sensories are all on these scales. And we actually filled out this, form for backup, lack of a better word, where you kind of go through each one. It's like on a scale of one to 10 for each person or a family, would we say we're like less or more [00:30:00] sensitive to these particular, you know, Senses and three of us in my household are very high on a lot of our sensory stuff, myself included.
But now that I notice that, I, like, feel less, it annoys me almost more in some ways because, because I notice, but it also, it makes me understand and have empathy for myself, for my kids, for whoever it is, and be like, oh, it's too loud for you right now, isn't it? I can see that you're going like this, right?
Yeah. And the, whatever reaction comes from that, because. They're not regulated, or I'm not regulated, is kind of more forgivable, you know, because it's like, it's just a reaction to our nervous systems being hijacked by this emotion. Yeah.
Jena: Absolutely. And you hear a lot about, you know, behaviors in schools or behavior at home, kids are acting out.
[00:31:00] Well, it's not because they're trying to be jerks. They are, like, they are reacting because something about their situation, whether it's their environment or the, you know, social situation or whatever it is. Is triggering their nervous system and they have no choice in the matter, but to react in a way that one communicates that they're not in, they're not in a comfortable place or a healthy place for them.
And 2 things need to change. Yeah. And so they're, they're those behaviors are when we're paying attention and when we're in tune with our own sensory systems in our own nervous system, that should be information that the child is giving you. Okay. And how you can improve their quality of life or their learning environment or whatever it is, they're, they're not just crying and throwing themselves on the floor.
I mean, maybe they do want the ice cream, but more often than not. It's, it's something that is attributed to their nervous [00:32:00] system going into survival mode.
Mel: Yeah.
Jena: So They want the ice cream and,
Mel: and something else is going on. And, don't we all, don't
Jena: we
Mel: all. Because they might want the ice cream to warm and react totally differently, right?
Jena: Yeah,
Mel: exactly. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, as we've already, uh, uh, played into us learning how to notice, uh, What our bodies are doing will help us be less reactive, right? Because we'll be like, oh, okay, I just need to step away for a second or whatever action it is that you need to take.
The Role of Mirror Neurons
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Mel: And the other thing that's coming to my mind is mirror neurons.
So if a child is having a tantrum in front of me, what we might call a tantrum, which is really getting overstimulated and dysregulated because of whatever's happening, my body wants to react by doing the same thing. Yeah. Right. My body is [00:33:00] designed to react. By doing the same thing, and it's our job as adults to have the practice out of those contexts so that when we get into that, we can go, Oh, my body wants to do that too right now.
That's interesting.
Jena: Our
Mel: next step is to avoid it or make it as short as possible, or, you know, just get ourselves regulated so that we can support the other person as, as best as we can. Yeah. Co regulation.
Jena: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Totally. Making a note of the mirror neurons. You know, the more I talk about this in the various aspects that there is, the more it's like, Oh, this just, it's so fascinating.
It's so complex. It all fits together and it, it applies. universally to every, every human on the planet.
Healing Power of Nature
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Mel: Now, I don't know if like, this is me just talking out loud without [00:34:00] having said this yet before, but with mirror neurons, generally it is the science of like people to people, but I almost wonder if there's this next level of that's what we're getting when we go in nature as well.
Right. So we're picking up on the energy that is the wind and the tree, or, you know, is. Stormy, we probably feel different than when it's sunny and peaceful. And, you know, we put all those words to it because that's how we feel when it's sunny and quiet and whatever it might be. So I wonder if we mirror a neuron.
The energy and nature
Jena: as well. I, you know, there, there, there is an energetic exchange when we're in nature. And so like the grounding concept, the physical grounding concept where you've got your bare feet on the, on the earth, or you're digging with bare hands, like when you're gardening, there is an, we do draw up the [00:35:00] earth's energy, which is one of the fastest ways to, to regulate our nervous system.
So the earth does give off this healing frequency that that our bodies are designed to uptake. And then I think the energetic exchange is that we are able to let go of, of the frequencies. And right now I'm just talking off the cuff. We let go of the frequencies that aren't serving us. And then that's just kind of recycled.
So I've, I, you know, I have a working knowledge of it, but not, not a super scientific knowledge of it. And totally like experiential knowledge of it, because, like, we all know in our hearts that going outside is healing for us. We always feel better when we come when we go outside, take a hike, or just go sit in the backyard for a little bit.
Get some sunshine, you know, the fresh air. That's it's so healing for us, and it's regulating for [00:36:00] us. So, and that's actually 1 of the reasons why I, I, I work in the realm of nature play, because for me. I see that as healing gardens, healing spaces for anyone who's out in that space. They're not just about play.
They're not just about learning. Those are, those are, you know, very important aspects of it or ingredients, but it's very healing. So yeah. Yeah. And there's something very magical going on when we get out there and the connection that we create with nature.
Mel: Exactly. Yeah. I would love to like speak to a scientist that's like, Yeah.
And I'm also okay going, wow, magic, like that is, I know,
Jena: I think science can only explain so much. Yeah. You know, it can only detect so much about our, our life experience in our worlds. I think there's, I personally think there's [00:37:00] so much more going on than meets the eye
Mel: and or,
Jena: or then what our little tools can detect.
Mel: Yeah. And that, and that we notice, right? Because we can only notice, I think it's 40 things out of the 2 billion that are happening in this exact moment, right? Yeah. We can just only hold that much. So what is it that we're noticing, within that? And, uh, I don't even remember, I don't remember where this was from or anything like that.
So don't like hold me to it, but I remember seeing something where someone had managed to like use some sort of electric.
The Magic of Sound and Energy
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Mel: energy to hear a tree and make music out of it. Yeah. Like, and I was like, what? Like how? Yeah. And you could actually listen to like the music that the tree was making through the energy that's coming out.
Like that's evidence that there's energy flowing through this tree.
Jena: Yeah.
Mel: It's fascinating. It is.
Jena: There's, there's a couple of different manufacturers of [00:38:00] a tool that does Pick up the frequency of different plants species and translates that into song. So it's literally taking the unique. Frequency signature off of that individual plant, whether or moss or whatever it is, and it turns it into sound music for us.
And so like, what would, what would it look like Mel? If that, if we put the tool on, on you, what, what song would your body emit? Or if we put it on me, what song would my body emit? That's our energy signatures or, or to the, you know, to you who are listening right now, what, what would be your song that you would emit?
And, you know, it's, it's so far beyond, uh, whether we're feeling good or bad, it's just our natural energy signatures that we all have.
Mel: Yeah. And sound is a big part. I actually would love to, if anybody's listening that is really into music, I'd love to have a conversation with someone [00:39:00] about like the magic that is that sound essentially coming out of us.
Not necessarily like, Like you say, like whether you're a good singer or a bad singer or anything like that, but like the, the music, whatever that is that actually comes out, and where that fits, it's actually something. So this summer I had kind of decided through a lot of personal development that I felt I really wanted to get my voice out more.
So I've been looking back at singing and, Because I used to do a lot of it in high school. I was in the jazz choir and the choir, like sing at my graduation, like all these things. And I've, it's very rare now, but fascinating. Like if we, it's me providing, putting meaning on something, but like my voice is, you can hear it, it goes crackly right now sometimes.
So I like allow myself to do it. And then like my body's fighting back a bit and being like, this is actually where you're at. And then I'm like, What do I have to get through next? To get my voice back, which I [00:40:00] don't know how accurate this, I don't even know what that answer is. It's just like a curiosity in my mind every time I hear my voice, uh, crackle and I lost it for like four days for no apparent reason, but yeah, it's so strange, right?
But as you say, it's like, there's something, there's a depth there around our energies, nature's energies our senses and our sensory needs and. It's such a beautiful kind of topic to explore for each of us individually and what that, what that looks like. Right. Yeah.
Jena: Yeah. Yeah.
The Importance of Self-Care
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Jena: And it does really come down to, like how good you want your life to be really comes down to how much can you experience through your body?
How much can you allow yourself to experience physically through your body? Because that nervous system, like it, there's, [00:41:00] there's no more important thing than your nervous system. It relates with everything, everything you do. And so, again, it's the greatest act of self care is to reconnect with your sensory systems.
Mel: I think that's really beautiful because so often, especially mothers, you know, if I, if we were just starting this conversation with like, what is self care? You know, the answer is usually like, go take a bath or go to the spa or get your hair done or get, you know, and those are all, they are self care for beautiful reasons.
And We don't all have the privilege of being able to do that, whether it's time wise, capacity wise, money wise, whatever. And I think what you're proposing here is this beautiful ability to take literally like five seconds sometimes to just. Check in, notice our sensory system, notice our nervous system, and be like, oh, okay, that's it.
You can move on then if you want, if you have to, you know, or sit in it for an [00:42:00] hour when you get the chance. Definitely. But also accepting that like, you know, a little bit at a time is better than nothing. That's you. Reminding yourself that you can do that.
Jena: Yeah, and you know, you don't have to go out, go out to an expensive dinner to have delicious food.
You can savor the peanut butter and jelly that you made for you and your child and just sit and savor it because it's so delicious.
Mel: It's true. So, yeah. And it's not like, you know, it's the go to to like go out for a dinner or something as, as that. But honestly, that's usually overstimulating for me too.
And I'm like, I don't feel better after that. Maybe more connected with whoever it is that I'm there with, but, yeah, it's a, it's kind of an interesting one. Yeah. So awesome.
Conclusion and Next Steps
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Mel: Well, I love this conversation. Yeah. And [00:43:00] I don't know, I just love that conversation. We covered a lot of
Jena: ground, didn't we?
Mel: We covered tons of ground.
You know, we went into like, our nervous system, our sensory system. It was amazing to have a conversation with you about how the last year has gone and what that looks like and, you know, reminding us that we're human and it's a journey. And just go out and try something and see what happens. Yeah. You know, that's so, so important.
And also that we are whole humans in our whole body and checking in with our nervous system is the greatest gift we can give ourselves and the people around us. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for coming today. If people are intrigued by what you're doing, where can they find you? What's next?
I know you've got some stuff coming up. Perhaps you want to just tell us quickly what that is. Yeah. Yeah. And where can they find you?
Jena: Okay. Online you can find me at nisfornatureplay. com. I'm on [00:44:00] Instagram and Facebook and, yeah, all sorts of places. You can find my contact information in any of those places.
What's coming up next? Well, I, I'm not sure Mel, when your podcast is going to air, but I have, a new free workshop training coming up here in a few weeks, called neuro based nature play, where I go into the three pillars of, The three pillars that you need to know to really create the type, like, just the right kind of sensory based play and learning space for your child.
And I'll give you a hint, the third pillar is you, the adult, from what we just talked about. And I, yeah, I've got some fun courses and programs as well. And so if you're interested in trainings or design work, uh, just reach out to me at Jena, J E N A. @ ns4natureplay. com, and I'm more than happy to chat with you.
Mel: Brilliant. [00:45:00] Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us again today, Jena, and sharing your journey thus far.
Jena: You're welcome, Mel. It's always fun to be here.
Mel: You know when you have that dream or that idea and you hold it really tight and you don't really want to share it with anyone until you have it just right until you are absolutely assured that it is exactly what you want it to be but you also know deep down inside that it is unlikely to get perfect it is unlikely to get to exactly where you want it to be unless you share it with others.
It's when we share it with other people that we get the energy and the momentum. It is when we get feedback. It is when we start to iterate inside of our own minds. We need to get it out of our bodies and into the world in some sort of way. And talking to someone who [00:46:00] will cheer you on is exactly The first step.
Now, if you can't think of anybody in your life that you would love to share your dream with in this raw stage where you're not gonna get the words right and you're worried that they're gonna come back to you and be, yeah, but or ooh, what if? Don't share with those people. If you can't think of who to share it with, then I want to be that person for you.
Totally complimentary, I am launching the Dream Haven and it is a simple message back and forth concept where you tell me your dream and I cheer you on and tell you exactly how amazing I think it is. I can be that safe space for you and your dreams to grow into whatever they're going to grow. It's going to grow.
totally complimentary. It remains your dream, not mine. And I would absolutely love and be honored by being that person [00:47:00] who gets to hear it first. So head on over to permissiontobehuman. ca slash the dash dream dash haven. And let's get this going. Because your dream deserves to be out there in the world.
It could be a project. It could be a business. It could be the change that you really want to see in the world. It could be an adventure that you really want to go on. You got this. Let's hear about it. Again, all you have to do is head on over to permissiontobehuman. ca slash the dash dream dash haven and put your details in and you'll get a video personalized back from me inviting you to take our next step.
That is it, folks. This has been Mel Findlater on Permission to Be Human, the podcast, and I am so glad that you have joined us here today and hope that you have taken away some tidbits that will help you go away, connect with your big audacious dream, [00:48:00] and make that massive impact in the world that you are dying to make.
If you liked today's episode, please, please, please like it, share it. Think of one person. Think of one person that you think would also like it and send it on over to them. Let's get this out there and more moms feeling like themselves. Inspired, dreaming big, and out there being them. Please do head on over to find me on Facebook with permission to be human or Instagram or you can even Off me an email and say hello.
Have permission to be human, always, at gmail. com. Say hello and let me know that you listened. What did you like about it? I would love to hear. If you didn't like it, I don't really want to know. Just kidding, you can share that if you want. I would love to know, however, who you are. Let's connect. [00:49:00] Let's find out what you want more of.
I want to hear from you and I want to make it what would be useful to you. As always, remember that you have permission to dream big, permission to feel big, and permission to be you. You have complete and full permission to be human. For real, you do.
