Episode 49- How to conquer burnout and inner stress with Jennifer Erwin
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Welcome to Permission to be Human, the podcast. I'm your host Mel Findlater mother, coach, and curator of Permission to be Human, the company and community. If you're a mom, know a mom, or want to be a mom, and you crave getting out in the world to make a difference, then you're in the right place. This is a space for moms like you to connect with yourself, your purpose, and your big audacious dreams.
Because when you feel your best, you can better you, your family, and the wider world. Let's do this.
/ We have a really special guest today called Jennifer Irwin. And I'm really excited to share this conversation with you because. The core topic that we bring up is burnout. And oftentimes we think about burnout in the sense of overworking a job. [00:01:00] That we get paid for. And in this conversation. Well, we do touch on that. We also touch on. The fact that burnout is something we can experience at any stage in our life.
And with motherhood. It can really, really happen. So. Have a listen below to how motherhood and burnout relate and correlate. And what you can do to support yourself before you get to that point. And when you do. Jennifer Irwin. A woman's empowerment. Coach specializes in guiding high achieving moms through burnout, to a confident, thriving life as a recovering perfectionist and empathetic high achiever. Jennifer ultimately understands the challenges women face with a loud inner critic. Often leading to overwhelm and burnout. Her big audacious dream is to empower women to conquer burnout [00:02:00] and inner stress becoming their own best friend. To create purposeful, connected. Lives.
Mel: /All right. Welcome Jennifer.
Jennifer: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Mel: Yeah. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today to, you know, di dig into your story a bit and also talk about burnout and exhaustion and everything that comes with, with that. And I'm just kind of like leaning into that. I feel like it's gonna be really useful for the crowd, so thanks for coming.
Yeah.
Jennifer: It's an important topic, especially for moms and anyone who's trying to juggle multiple things. Yeah,
Mel: for sure. So let's start with, with you. Who's, who is Jennifer?
Jennifer: Which is always such a big question. Aren't we all like multitudes inside? Yeah, so I am, some of my roles are that I'm a mother and a homeschooling parent, and the work that I love doing is [00:03:00] coaching.
So I'm also a life coach for women. And I specifically work with women who are facing burnout or exhaustion, or just, trying to balance, find work life balance. I work with a lot of moms that are physicians that are trying to figure out how do I parent? How do I have my career? And with people that are serving in both of those ways, like caretaking at home and then caretaking on the job too.
I live in Colorado and I love hiking in the mountains. I have a cat who, Is a very loud snorer. He's very loud at snoring. What else? I love reading. I'm like a personal growth junkie. I've been that way since I was 12. So ever since I was little, I originally went out to become a teacher and I had my master's in education and then I pivoted to life coaching and I think I've always kind of been a life coach.
Always been on that, you know, path of trying to grow and develop and [00:04:00] encourage others to do the same too.
Mel: I love all of that. And you know, a mixture of your roles and your, your loves, I want to say, like your interests, I suppose. You know, that, that is what creates us, right? Yeah. So awesome. Okay. So tell us a little bit about that story.
Like, you know, 12 years old, you're, you're, what does that look like? You reading books all about personal development? Like,
Jennifer: how does that look at 12? Yeah. So yeah, that is kind of my story is that I've always been a very sensitive kid, like very emotionally attuned, but I think I would identify myself as a highly sensitive person.
And I didn't know that at the time, but also striving, like always striving to be. And having a lot of like anxiety as well. So all of those kind of pulling in with my desire to grow and learn and my interest in like psychology and the human [00:05:00] mind and how to improve. Like I have a natural inclination to learning that way.
I just turned 40 but I joke that I've always been kind of a 40 year old woman. Because I was reading I don't know if you know the book Simple Abundance, it's by Sarah Bunn Breath and Knock, but she was in her, like, mid, midlife when she was writing these books, and I was reading them, like, there's a daily one, and then her next one, which is more, it's all about how do we, like, embrace the senses, and honor gratitude, and really look for the joy in the everyday So I was reading that, and I started a gratitude journal, so I have gratitude journals from when I was 12, just filled up with little things.
And I started meditation I've always been interested in different spiritual paths, so I was doing some of that stuff even early on, and reading like Stephen Covey's Seven Habits. I went to college with my mission statement written out on a whiteboard, and I have a friend who's like, I don't know anyone else who went to college and like had a, had a Like it was up on my dorm wall.
So it's [00:06:00] always been like a, a big passion. I've read too many, well, maybe not too many, but a lot of self taught books. Self help, personal growth, that kind of, anything in that realm, I'm always drawn to continue to be, yeah. So that's kind of where, and I think that like so much of that has given me, I like, always talk about the contrast of like, part of it was anxiety and an inner, Like belief that I wasn't okay as I was that was driving me towards that and like that dual ness and like a pure love of it.
So they were side by side and I think that like my story really does come with how did I kind of move away from this feeling that I wasn't okay and kind of moving letting self growth, personal development, life coaching, all of those things move me towards this more whole and more healthy. joy [00:07:00] of delving into these things that really serve us, not from a fear of, or a lack, but really from this place of like, well, this is what makes life joyous.
And I feel like that's a story too. That's how like burnout connects to, because we can get burned out when we're in this place of feeling like we're not enough. And we're always striving for the next thing.
Mel: Yeah, yeah, you really touched on, what I picked up because I picked up earlier in your story there this, you know, you were always striving, and I'm like, well, that's really interesting and, and was curious about the correlation between the striving and the, and the desire to learn and grow.
But you just touched on that there, right? Like, I think the age of 12 actually is about when we do start to like question ourselves and not feel good enough. And, you know, our worthiness comes into question and because developmentally that's the stage that, that we're often at, right. We're, we're seeking that independence and figuring out who we are.
And it sounds like that journey [00:08:00] has led you now to this place of, of, of thriving instead of striving.
Jennifer: Yeah, yeah, both and, you know, like it's always a work in progress, but yes, definitely more of the time in that thriving place.
Mel: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, which is brilliant. Awesome. So, so you, you know, you've lived this life, you've gotten through all this development phases, gotten to the point that you are now.
And where did, you know, like what else happened along the way? What happens a little later on?
Jennifer: Yeah. So. I like doing that inner work has supported me in getting to where I am today, but it took a long time. I really, I had a lot of tools, but I was still coming from this like striving not enough place.
Even as I added more of these great tools to my toolkit, like I was meditating, I did the process [00:09:00] of the artist's way, which is so fun. And I was doing my like daily pages. So I did a lot of journaling. But I really was still kind of trapped in this place of not enough ness and that, and like trying to please others, like still not sure of myself in terms of like, am I here to please others and make others happy?
I think that's a tendency that a lot of empathetic people get into of like realizing that you can tune into someone else's emotions and so you're trying to help them feel a certain way even though you can't really control that. So I had that, so I had achiever tendencies and what I like to call people pleaser tendencies.
And so that led me to doing things that I was praised for and that I have a natural gift for, which has always been working with children. So from the age of 12, 11, 12, I was babysitting and then, you know, working at a school. I went to a Montessori school and then was working at a Montessori school over the summer, helping with their summer [00:10:00] camps and learning a lot there.
And so, after college, I decided to get my master's in Montessori education, and I think it was pretty exciting. Partly driven by like a true desire again to like serve kids and do what I'm good at, but also because that's what I always gotten recognition from and people were always affirming like, Oh, you're so good at this.
You'd make a great teacher. And so following that path somewhat unconsciously and going through that and becoming a teacher and enjoying a lot of it. Like, that was really like I did. Really thrive and enjoy teaching for a period of time and about in my third or fourth year teaching I just I landed in a circumstance that was more challenging It was the work environment was more challenging and I just got really burned out all these tendencies that I had been able to kind of manage the like Achieving and the people pleasing it like just bumped up against this really hard circumstance and I it just was [00:11:00] Too exhausting for me.
And I really got burned out. And that's kind of where that breaking point and where I feel like a lot of my tools really helped me shift into how do I take care of myself? How do I like hold myself identity outside of this role of being a teacher, which has a lot of praise. People really understand that I got a lot of accolades for being a teacher.
And how do I separate that from, like, what do I really need in this moment and in my life path? And I feel like that was such a choice point for me of, like, can I walk away from teaching and still hold on to the essence of who I am? Can I separate this identity of a work identity from my self worth?
Mel: Hmm. Oh, there's so many things that are coming to my mind right now. One of which is that I identify so much with your story that it's really like distracting me, right? So I'm like highly sensitive person used to say I was 40 when [00:12:00] I was 14, like all the things, right? And I think that's when you have that emotional awareness That is how you feel.
Like I used to seek conversations with people that were quite a lot older than me because they were More interesting conversations, right? Like I really wanted to dig into the why and the how and the complexities of things. But yeah, so I can really identify with tons of that, including the role, as you say, of being a teacher.
So I didn't become a teacher, but that's what I thought I would be doing. Right. And my mom still to this day is like, when are you going to go back and get that Montessori teaching degree? I was like, I'm not mom. Like I've been past that stage. But you know, this, I think this, uh, this part of your story, this transition of finding a point where it's kind of like your breaking point, your, your choosing point, that, that, that section where you decide to transition onto something [00:13:00] different is probably the theme that comes up in most Of the stories of the people that we talked to on this podcast, right?
It's something, something just switches and you're like, oh, like this isn't quite working for me. And then you start to see what's possible of like, okay, well, I don't know exactly what this is going to be, but. Let's, let's see, right? And so from that stage on, was it like all uphill and you're just like, I know exactly what I'm doing or how did it look?
Jennifer: Oh, we wish, right? No. So. I feel like I took a year. So when I decided to, I was at that school setting that was just really challenging for two years. And the second year is when I started feeling burned out and I was experiencing it. My body was giving me a lot of signs. So that's something like if you're in burnout, it's, it's easy to ignore it, especially if you are in that achieving or people pleasing or it's tied up in [00:14:00] your identity in some way or true love of doing something.
Like it's hard to sometimes. And so I didn't really see it, but I took a year and I did have support like I was part of a community of people that was based in nonviolent communication. So I was learning a lot about like my feelings and my needs and I had empathy partners. So I had people that were reflecting back to me what I was going through.
And I did some like data collection where I was like, is it as bad? Is it that I'm just having these bad days that are like feeling like they bleed out? Or is it really that every day is so hard? So I started actually taking data. Of like every day in my journal, I just give the day a rating and after three months, I was like, I decided I would look at it and reevaluate and I did.
I looked back through and I was like, there are a lot of hard days in here and I'm going to need to find something else. That's like, whether it's another teaching job or something else. And I think that choice point is always when the unknown, which can feel so scary to our brains, because it's like, we're much more comfortable, even in the [00:15:00] highly discomfort of our present moment, choosing that because it's known, even if it's terrible, then jumping into this unknown space.
But sometimes life gives us enough nudges where it's like, Oh my gosh, the unknown is a better choice. And a lot of times we're kind of pushed into that direction. And that's where it was, where I was like starting, like you just said so beautifully, like, like that possibility where I was like, well, what else do I like doing?
You know? So I started exploring, like, would I like to become a doula? What are some of my other interests? Like where, where are these other opportunities where I could still have joy, where I could still use my strengths, where I could still be of service to the world, but not have to be, not have to be locked in this certain role, have to make it look this way.
And so I feel like that is where it's like we get to that choice point and we're ready to move forward. And sometimes, like, I've been trying to learn from that experience and not let it get so uncomfortable to the place of burnout, like [00:16:00] trying to learn. But oftentimes our first initial, like, point is when we.
Get to this place of oh, yeah, this is really unsustainable and I have to switch.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah, where something must be better than this. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Mel: And I think that's important to point out to people because I'm sure that there's a lot of listeners that who are, are, you know, reaching that point that this is like really hard.
And how to say what I'm thinking, what happens when we've reached that point because we're a mom and we can't just like walk away from the job, quote unquote, right? You know, as someone who works in this space, and I'm, I'm, I'm sure works with a lot of moms, if you're working with women, what would you, what would you say to them?
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. [00:17:00] And that is a hard one, you know, because it isn't the job, like that circumstance isn't the one that you're going to walk away from. Like we aren't often going to leave those relationships and especially our relationships with our kids. They're just too important. And what I found, I actually have another story.
So I, I have two experiences of burnout and one was after I was a mom, because as a teacher, I wasn't I actually became a mom right after I decided to leave teaching. It was like the universe winking at me of like, Oh, leaving this circumstance. Let's, let's give you this one. And so I had an experience where I was burned out.
I have, I was working full time as an assistant in a school. This was It's two years down the road, so I had a toddler at that time, so I was like parenting. I was working full time. I was starting to become a coach, so I was coaching people on the side and I was part of this program where I was learning a lot to coaching skills and other skills and I was just exhausted and [00:18:00] stressed and like irritable and part of it was parenting on top of the other things that were going on but that wasn't the thing that I was going to walk away from and.
I was in this group of other women and we were in a group where we were amplifying and magnifying each other's like brilliance and also just reflecting for each other. And I was bringing, I was in the hot seat, the hot love seat that day. And I was like asking, I'm like, here's what I'm doing. And I was back in that achiever mindset of like, here's what I have to do.
I have to be an amazing mom. I have to show up at my job. I need to be a good coach. I need to show up and here's how I'm scheduling out my day. And all the women were like, I think you're doing. way more than enough. And I think what you need right now is more support. And so sometimes as moms, we, and as women, we take on so much and we set the bar so high for ourselves because we have big dreams or high expectations, but we set it so impossibly [00:19:00] high that we couldn't ever reach it.
And so that was really a place of like, what can I do so that I can show up better for myself? And where do I need to ask for help and support? And I feel like that in motherhood is really key because oftentimes we're trying to do too much. Our culture isn't as collective as some other cultures. We tend to be more individualistic and there's, But there's there's resources and support out there if we look for them.
So how do we find that time for self care or carving out a moment for our own passions or dreams or get a break from our kids so that we can come back rejuvenated? So that's one piece of it, and the other piece would just be self compassion. That's my, always my go to, is like, how am I treating myself in here, and how can I give myself so much care and compassion for how hard it is to be a parent?
Oftentimes we think it should be easy, or we think because we love our kids that we shouldn't [00:20:00] be frustrated with them, or whatever stories we have going on in our heads, and so much of it could just be like, hey, wow, it is hard being a mom. There's a lot on us. There's a lot of demanding of us and we rise to the occasion so much and we have our own needs.
And how can we honor just like those difficult moments with a lot of care and compassion and then reach out and get the support that would help us rejuvenate ourselves so that we aren't burned out by our role in caregiving in that way.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah. I just like want to breathe into that one. Right. Truly.
It's. You know, there's a couple, I'm going to go back to the, uh, beginning of what you said in a second, but just to tap on that last thing you said, you know, like it is, it is hard and so much of what brings me to doing this podcast and doing this work is to acknowledge that for myself,
Jennifer: but [00:21:00] also
Mel: for others, right?
So like, like, so you're right. We, we, as moms can feel we're our worst critic. You know, the way we talk to ourselves inside of our head, you would never speak to any other person that way, ever, right? Like just stop and listen to it for a second and be like, Oh, like, would I ever say that to my kid or my husband or my best friend or whoever, like even a stranger, no, there's no way.
Right. So that self compassion piece is big and, and I'd love to kind of, come back to a question about what. What could we do for self compassion? So there's a doing question there, but just before we do, something that I wanted to tap into there is that you mentioned that when we have, it's when we have these big audacious dreams, like that's what we talk about so much on here, right?
And I am, and I am so in favor of it. We [00:22:00] need it. We need this sense of purpose. We need this sense of dreaming and possibility and all those things. And the downside, if we're not careful, as you say, is that we put so much pressure on ourselves. Like, it's not good enough to only do this because what I really want is over here.
It's like, well, maybe it is good enough to only do this and I still want this thing over here, right? Maybe it can be both. And I just really liked that you tapped into that because that is, you know, when I set up the work that I'm doing, that's the, that's been the hesitation in my mind is that I don't want people to feel, I don't want to push people into pushing themselves further.
Right? That's not the way to do it, and we will do that. And that's okay too. Self compassion, right? You're gonna naturally end up doing that because you're so, you know, we just, as people are ambitious. And [00:23:00] it's okay. Like, now what do you do about that? You've noticed it. What do we do next? Right?
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah.
That's beautiful. Yeah, it is. It's always the like, how do we hold something that we love so dearly and feel passionate about and not drive ourselves crazy by pushing so hard to like, to have such unrealistic expectations because it's okay to have high expectations, but it's those unrealistic ones that we hold in our head that we compare ourselves to.
That's where so much of our inner language is that we're like, I wouldn't expect this of anyone else. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. And that word pushing that you say, I think that's what it is. My, I, I love having unrealistic expectations of what could happen, not what I have to do, but what could happen. Could happen. And that's the place, that's where I play.
That's where I, that's my, I love that space. And if I'm pushing to get there, I am not making myself happy. [00:24:00] Right. It's the pushing, the striving, the, the not enough ness that can come. with that. And I think I learned that lesson almost every single day over and over and over again. Right, as someone who, it does dream so big, and that, and that's okay, right?
It's slowing myself down, realizing, slowly realizing that, like, the stuff that I used to think was very kind of hoo hoo, you know, manifesting and all those things, it's like these things actually do happen if the, the science of our brain is that we notice things when we open our mind to them. Right? So if I know that this big dream is over here, that I want to do X, Y, or Z, then I start to notice the possibilities and the opportunities along the way that I can slowly take towards that.
And I won't notice those things as much if I'm just pushing and striving. Because what I'm noticing is the fact that I'm not there yet. [00:25:00] Right? So it's, it's what do we choose to notice along the way?
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. I love that distinction that you just made. Cause it isn't about the unrealistic expectation.
I'm glad you teased that out because it isn't like, that can be a playful fun. Like what is possible? I think we use the word, like the possibilities, like, Ooh, that's exciting. But it is how we're like, kind of bringing ourselves along the journey. Like you said, are we pushing, are we, you know, Expecting so much of us to make it happen so that we're narrow focused.
And that's what our brain does. It's anxiety, fear narrows versus like that open creativity where our brains are like, Oh, what about this possibility? I can move this way. And, and it does feel like magic sometimes it's that like opening up when we can be in the flow. It does. It kind of. I'm always learning how to lean into that because I do have that striver who's like, well, if you're not doing your part, but it's like, what if it was easy?
I like that question. It comes from Susie more, but she's like, what if it was easy? You know? And that's [00:26:00] always a good question for me to be like, okay. What if it was? What if that was the possibility? Yeah.
Mel: Yes, that's such a good question. Like, we could all ask ourselves that right now and just like, literally take, I recommend it.
Like, if you're listening to this, ask yourself, what if this was easy? What if it was easy? And go and like, journal or just reflect on it or however, you know, take a walk. Whatever works for you. But like, that's such a good question. Cause where my mind went right away. Was into a land where it was easy,
Jennifer: right?
Mel: Our brains don't know the difference between reality and imagination. So we're already there, right? Like how amazing is that? We're building that neural pathway to get there simply by asking ourselves. What if it was easy? Like that's beautiful. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah. And I think it takes the focus off of sometimes that we make it hard in our, I know this [00:27:00] is true for me is that I make it harder in my own head than it actually is sometimes in reality.
So it's also, I think what you named before of like, where am I putting my attention? Is it on this tumultuous, like, Inner experience. Is it on my critical thoughts? Or can I shift my attention to what's working? You know, how could I make it better? How do I solve this problem? You know, like opening into that creative space or what's possible.
And it is, how do you do that gently? So it's not, I definitely shamed myself into, I should be thinking better positive thoughts. And that, again, I think that's been my self growth journey is like, how do I stop? Criticizing myself on the path of growing. You know, how do I really have that growth mindset of like, I'm always learning and I'm always growing.
It's always possible. I don't need to be there now. You know, like I don't have to arrive at the end now. I can enjoy that process of learning and growing. Cause I'm okay while I do that. And I can have fun. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. [00:28:00] Yeah. And growth only comes through struggle.
Jennifer: Yeah,
Mel: really. Right. We, we need those moments when we're, Being hard on ourselves because they're not actually going to come or where something challenging comes in our lives.
And that's where we are able to put those things in practice, to grow, to, to build that mindset, to test it out.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Mel: And then have compassion for the fact that we didn't get a perfect. Yeah. Right.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Mel: So let's go back to the self compassion thing since that segued in there nicely. What can we do for self compassion?
How can we actually get ourselves? Thinking that way. Cause we talk, you know, so many people, we know, we know we'd have to bring in self compassion and it, for me personally, it's like my Achilles heel. I'm, I really struggle with it. And it's the thing I need the most.
Jennifer: Right.
Mel: So what can we, what can we actually tangibly do [00:29:00] to support ourselves to increase that self compassion muscle?
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. That's such a great question. And it's the question I've been asking myself cause it's my Achilles heel too. It's why I put so much attention on it because it's the thing that can slip so easily for me and it's the thing that has been so foundational for me in my life. Like once I. Got that foundation of self compassion, like everything got easier.
It's not that I didn't struggle anymore. I still have plenty of struggles, but I just have this like compassionate space around it. That makes it so much life more enjoyable and more enjoyable to be in my body, even in moments of. High discomfort or stress. And I've done a lot. So I two years ago, I did.
Kristen Neff has a teacher training for mindful self compassion, and she's kind of the go to person her and Chris Germer. I recommend anyone reading any of their books. [00:30:00] Kristen Neff's. more recent book about fierce self compassion is such a good read because it helps us kind of do that tender self compassion, that nurturing part and the fierce part.
Like you think that fierce, how you protect your kids, that fierce mama bear kind of feeling, and how do you set boundaries, how do you protect yourself in so many situations without being defensive, you know, that balance is so good. So I highly recommend that to anyone. And you say what that
Mel: was again, just, yeah.
Jennifer: Of course. So it's Kristen Neff, N E F F, and her most recent book is called Fierce Compassion, Fierce Self Compassion. Yeah. And in her work, she's identified three components of self compassion, and I find that that's helpful for me. I like her self compassion break process, and I think it's really tangible for people to kind of see those three different parts, and I think each part is, cohesive.
Like if you're [00:31:00] missing one, it can really impact. So it's good to kind of see which area you might want to focus on and make that like kind of a focus for a little bit if you're struggling. So that first component is mindfulness, which is not meditation, but just being aware of what's going on for yourself and your body.
So when I do a self compassion check in, which I try to do on a regular basis, And sometimes I forget and sometimes I'm really great at it. I like putting my hand over my heart or somewhere. It's helpful to have the sensory input of like, so like right now I'm rubbing my shoulders because that's really soothing to me.
Some people have like a fist over their heart. So finding for you what works for you of like, where do I find safety and security? How can I signal that in my body and give myself a sense of security? Groundedness and like, I'm here for you kind of feeling and then just checking in of like, what am I feeling?
What am I needing? I feel like those two questions, I did so much work on that at the beginning and [00:32:00] having, we are so blind in our culture. We're not taught how to like, what is it that's going on? Are like, it's unknown. And so just even being like, what am I feeling? What am I needing? And just echoing that back, reflecting that back to yourself of like, oh, yeah.
I'm feeling anxious. Because I really need, you know, some space in my day, whatever it is, and not trying to fix it, not trying to change it, just echoing it back with a lot of love and care. And that's that step one. And that's what I found is most helpful for me in terms of just identifying what's happening in a nonjudgmental way of just like, what is the emotion?
What is the need? Sometimes I'll identify a feeling in my body too of like, Oh, that pit in my stomach. Okay. And then the part of self compassion. is that common humanity, which I think these conversations are what is so powerful. And that is just remembering we're not alone, that we're human, we're imperfect.
You have the permission to be human and [00:33:00] imperfect because that's how we all are. Right. And I find that that's sometimes we, we can feel really alone, like in burnout or in parenting. And so to remember and get connected to the fact that. My experience is, is probably shared by so many people on the planet and that all humans suffer and struggle and challenge.
That's just part of life. Like, that is part of life and it is hard. And can I just be with that? Can I realize like, oh, this experience is like connecting me with a larger common humanity. I'm not alone. And then the final piece, which I think is the hardest, is how to kind of change that inner dialogue to one of kindness rather than criticism.
So how can we be kind to ourselves in this moment? And like you said before, we don't talk to our kids or our partners or our friends or strangers like we talk to ourselves. But I think the good news is that even though we're critical with ourselves, we actually know how to talk to others. And so we just need to reverse [00:34:00] that inward and be like, okay, if I was talking to a good friend, what would I need?
What would I want to share in this moment? Like, what would I tell them in this moment of hardship or celebration, even? Sometimes we don't lean into those moments. So if I'm doing a self compassion check in, I'm like, okay, what would I tell someone else in this situation? And how would I tell it to them?
What tone would I use? What kind of words would I use? There's also a beautiful practice in the mindful self compassion community of like, What would you want whispered in your ear every day? And can you do that for yourself? What are the words that you would want whispered in your ear every day and said and making that you can make it a mantra.
You could just make it your go to of like, you know, like I am loved. I am whole, whatever words it is. You can just make them your own, whatever it is that you so deeply long to hear that would be so nourishing to and then give that to yourself in words [00:35:00] and then also in actions. So is there a place where you need to make a cup of tea?
Do you need to go out and sit in the sun for a moment? Do you need to just take three deep breaths? Like, is there some action that you can take to show yourself kindness and care? And I have found that those three steps, and once you have them, you move through them, it can, I do it in just a couple moments.
Like it can be really fast where I'm just putting my hand on my heart, being like, okay, I'm here for you. Feeling I'm not alone. What do I need? What can I give myself in this moment? What's 1 percent of what I can give myself in the moment? It doesn't have to be perfect. It can just be, what is it that I need?
Yeah. So I hope that's tangible. It's a lot, but once you get it going, it really is one of those things that becomes like a habit and easy to kind of implement and radically changes. Where I, like, catch myself and I'm like, oh, I'm being kind to myself. Like, it's so, it's nurturing that inner voice, which is so much quieter.
Our [00:36:00] inner critic is loud and our inner wisdom is quiet and subtle, but it's like, how do we keep putting our attention and making that neural pathway in our brain so that it's easier to go down that route than our old habitual route of criticism.
Mel: Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for that.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Mel: Okay, so, what would you say, knowing everything we've now heard from you, we've heard some of your story, we've tapped into this, like, passion of, supporting women, especially with burnout, but what is your big audacious dream?
Jennifer: And I love, I think you had another episode about being multi passionate. And I just really resonated with that one because there's so many things that, where I like start to get excited and you ask, what is my big audacious dream? And I'm like this one, this one. [00:37:00] And I really think most of it boils down to like, how do we make the world a more compassionate place?
Not just because that would make the world better, quote unquote, but because it would be more joyful and, like, lovely and fulfilling and satisfying, you know? I know that when I'm more compassionate with myself and with others, and when I'm, like, feeling into the joy of growing, not because I have to, but because it's fun and I'm evolving as a person and I can see potentials.
Like, there's a lot of fun. Fun and play and hope and just all the, all the wonderful stuff. And then there's compassion to hold anything that isn't. As easy, because like you said, we grow from some of that struggle. So it's not even about making a perfect world necessarily, but just one that like is moving towards that place of ever [00:38:00] ever growing evolution of like, what could we be as humanity?
You know, what could we be in relationship to our planet and to our children and to ourselves? So that's really big. And I just feel like my mission is like, how do I show up for myself in that way? How do I show up for myself? Sun, like each morning I write out, like, what is my intention? Who do I need to show up for?
And that is always like, my goal is like, how do I show up as a loving partner? So that I'm growing in my relationship. How do I show up as a loving parent so that I'm growing in that relationship? And how do I show up for my clients and my friends and my community in ways that really honor my values of empathy and connectedness and mindfulness and compassion.
Yeah.
Mel: I love that. I love every single thing about that. It's very close to mine as well, which is, is this, this belief that mothering will change the world. And mothering to me [00:39:00] is compassion. That is like, it is what it is. So I love that in so many ways. And I also love how you distinguish between, you know, there's this really big one, like that is huge to create a more compassionate world.
And that allows you to. Pick and choose how you want to do that each, each moment of each day, right? And you know, sometimes that might be starting a business or a project or a, you know, this or that. And sometimes it might be simply, Choosing to create a moment every morning to do what you just said, right?
It's, it can be the tiny things within this big thing. And that's, that's really beautiful. Cause I think a lot of us can fall into this, you know, if I'm just like, what's your big audacious dream to the audience, the people listening, you know, some people's minds will just go into like, what's my dream job or what's my dream business I want to build, or, you know, and yes, that's can be part of it.[00:40:00]
And it's about this bigger kind of purpose that we, are walking towards. Yeah. Sometimes crawling towards. So sometimes, you know, whatever it is.
Jennifer: Or just gazing towards, right? Gazing towards it, exactly.
Mel: Exactly. Oh, that's really beautiful. Okay, so we're going to start to wind down. So we always finish with the question of what is your top tip that you would give to the moms listening today?
Okay.
Jennifer: Yeah. Mm. And there's so many. So I think the biggest one is self compassion. And I think starting with just the self awareness and that's where just like, how are you talking to yourself? How are you treating yourself? What are the thoughts that are running through your head? Just building that.
Self awareness to then be able to shift into something else is where I [00:41:00] found, like, that's what I needed in order to recognize my burnout moment, you know, and to be able to transition gracefully was like, is this like I had to pause and I had to get reflection back and it can feel that can feel kind of intangible, but there's so many ways to do it.
Like, you can just. journal out in the morning, like, what am I feeling? What am I needing? Like, how can I get self awareness in my body in that way? Or journaling out, like, what are the thoughts that are running through my head when I'm having a stressful moment? Like, and just noticing, like, building that awareness, or taking that pause in the middle of the day and being like, okay, I have 30 seconds.
Like, no one's no one's dying. Like, I can, I can stop and pause for 30 seconds and build that self awareness of like, what's happening for me? So that then you can make more, responsive choices rather than reaction choices. And then you start to build a life that you can love and care about. And you then [00:42:00] start to have the capacity to, to hold, like, what are my dreams and goals?
And where am I with them? And have a lot of space for all of those things. The discouragement, the hope, the whatever. I feel like a lot of my work too has been like, how do I make an internal environment that's really spacious so that all my different parts and all my different emotions just have room to be as they are without kind of overwhelming.
me in a certain moment, you know, and how to have that be a compassionate space where everyone can can be there, be recognized, but no one, I mean, no one's not like taking over, like my inner critic's not taking over the show, you know, she can stay, stay there and I can love on her, but she doesn't have to run me anymore.
Mel: Oh, I love that. And I'm like, I'm so curious of like the visual that gets in your head when you're creating that space. So I'm like, is it a cozy sofa over here? Or is it like, are you on a beach? Like, where does your mind go when it wants to be in [00:43:00] that? That's beautiful space that you just described?
Jennifer: Yeah, yeah, I've had a vision.
I can't remember when I came about of being in a really wide open field where I have a tree. So I, it is, it's very specific and I always encourage people to find the thing that works for them, right? Like find the place that really resonates. And this was one where I have, because trees are so grounding to me.
So I have a tree, like a big, strong old tree at my back, but then around me, I have all of this big field of space because Rumi's quote beyond, I'm going to mess it up, but like beyond the, right and wrongdoing. There's a field and I'll meet you there. And that like inspired me where I was like, where can I meet all these different aspects of myself, all my feelings, all these different parts that are in me.
And so I do, I imagine like the sunlit field that's really warm and safe and all. And I have let my parts sometimes that are like stomping around the edge, but [00:44:00] no one, and sometimes they're really close. They need to like get cozy with me, but I feel grounded. And there's just a lot of room. There's a lot of room for people, all the parts, internally, to be just as they are.
Mel: That is amazing. As a visual person, I'm just, I visualize it all now. Probably different than what you're visualizing, funnily enough, but, you know I love that. I love that. And uh, it's, it's great. Made me want to, when we hang up, reflect upon what my space looks like. Yeah, I'd love to hear that. I
Jennifer: love hearing about what people think in their own minds, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Mel: Excellent. So if people are listening and they're like, Oh, I identify so much with what Jennifer is talking about, burnout has been in my life or is in my life, or they just are super intrigued by what you're, what you're saying, where can they find you?
Jennifer: Yeah, so you can always find me at my website, which is easy.
It's just my first name. So Jennifer [00:45:00] Irwin and then coaching. com and there you can find, you can like peruse and look around, but you can also schedule a free call. I'm always happy to talk to people. I love. I love, this is my work. I just love doing it. So it can feel really daunting to schedule a free call.
So I, you know, I totally get that and understand, but if you're in a place where you're like, I just need a touchstone, like know that I'd be joyfully giving that to you of like, to build that self awareness and have like a really compassionate space to just like be and live for a moment. And then also if I have a quiz where I like to, like, help, uh, moms and people that are experiencing burnout figure out where that stress, because their stress and exhaustion can come from our circumstances and it can come from internally.
So there's also a quiz on there where you can find out your mom type and see which, like, inner character is creating the most, , kind of overwhelming stress. And that's a free way to get in touch and learn a little bit more about my work. [00:46:00]
Mel: Brilliant. All right. Thank you so much for sharing all of you with us today.
Jennifer: Yeah, thank you for thank you for having me as I am and for this conversation. It was beautiful.
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It is so hard for me to believe because time has just flown by, but we are coming up to our one year anniversary of Permission to Be Human, the podcast. How? Just how? And I'm so excited that I have the tons of stuff in the works. Like tons. So Sunday, May the 12th to Saturday, May the 18th, there is going to be things happening every single day that week.
There'll be a podcast episode coming out at 7am each day, including Quite a few different things, but you'll get a chance to do, hear an interview with me. I gave the hosting thing over [00:47:00] to my good friend Sarah, and she interviewed me. So you'll find out more about me, you'll find out more about my family.
And more importantly, this is a week about overwhelm, right? Tools to get overwhelmed. Out of Overwhelm is what that week is going to be all about. So we'll have episodes by an eight year old girl who teaches kids yoga. Amazing. We'll have episodes by an EFT tapping specialist. We'll have episodes with just me, chatter chattering away as I always do.
And as well as an episode coming out every single day that week at 10 a. m. on Facebook live and Instagram live. I will be showing you a tool that will help you get through overwhelm. So don't miss that. There are also going to be prizes.[00:48:00]
I'm super excited. I am gathering them together and figuring out what they're going to be, but do show up that week, listen live on Facebook, listen to the podcast episodes, and you will find out how you can be in for some pretty epic prizes. And I have one request for you right now. One of those days is going to be a Q& A, Ask Mel Anything Day.
And in order for me to run something like that, I need some questions. What have you been wondering when you've been listening to this video? What questions do you have? You can ask me anything. I'm pretty much an open book. It can be about me or it could be about you. It could be about your wellbeing. Ask me anything.
Curiosities, and I promise I will answer them that week, [00:49:00] even if I get like a thousand. We'll figure it out. So please do send me permission to be human, always at gmail. com your questions so that I can answer them. I'm so excited that we're one year in and I can't wait to celebrate with you.
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That is it, folks. This has been Mel Finlayder on Permission to Be Human, the podcast, and I am so glad that you have joined us here today and hope that you have taken away some tidbits that will help you go away, connect with your big audacious dream, and make that massive impact in the world that you are dying to make.
If you liked today's episode, please, please, please Like it, share it. Think of one person. Think of one person that you think would also like it and [00:50:00] send it on over to them. Let's get this out there and more moms feeling like themselves. Inspired, Dreaming big and out there. Please do head on over to find me on Facebook with permission to be human or Instagram or you can even Off me an email and say hello.
Have permission to be human always at gmail. com say hello and let me know that you listened. What did you like about it? I would love to hear if you didn't like it. I don't really want to know. Just kidding. You can share that if you want. I would love to know, however, who you are. Let's connect. Let's find out what you want more of.
I want to hear from you and I want to make it what would be useful to you. As always, remember that you have permission to dream big, permission to feel big, and [00:51:00] permission to be you. You have complete and full permission to be human. For real, you do.
