Episode 45 - Mary Kate
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Mel: [00:00:00] Welcome to Permission to be Human, the podcast. I'm your host Mel Findlater mother, coach, and curator of Permission to be Human, the company and community. If you're a mom, know a mom, or want to be a mom, and you crave getting out in the world to make a difference, then you're in the right place. This is a space for moms like you to connect with yourself, your purpose, and your big audacious dreams.
Because when you feel your best, you can better you, your family, and the wider world. Let's do this.
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I feel so privileged to have a very unique guest on our show. Today, we have Mary Kate Schutt who is someone who I met in my positive psychology work. And she is such a beautiful soul, as you will definitely hear in our conversation today. We speak about. Permission [00:01:00] to change your mind. And Mary Kate comes from this perspective of. Choosing not at this moment to have children. Quite yet. After going back and forth quite a few times.
And we talk about that and, and many other decisions that have been made along the way and. Perhaps you've been in this place where you have a plan. And changing your mind on it sounds. Crazy sounds daunting. It sounds backwards. And yet, you know, that's the way to go. Well, this is the show for you to listen to if. You've ever been in that position or perhaps you're even there now. Mary Kate has professional experience over the past seven years includes the study practice and teaching of community health and positive psychology. For individuals, groups and universities, when she's not coaching, you can find her romping around with any combo of her 10 nieces and nephews dancing at a local concert or. With our hands in [00:02:00] potting soil. Her big audacious dream is to guide others towards awakening their joy. So they can live a life of infinite fulfillment. And I can say from experience that. Mary Kate is.
One of the most approachable. And loving coaches out there and anyone that gets to work with her is. So, so lucky. So. We're all very lucky here today to just get a little taste of what Mary Kate is like. Enjoy.
Mel: / Hi Mary Kate. Hey Mel, how are you? I'm so good. It's so, so lovely to see your face, I get to see it, and hear your voice, and introduce you to this world that is
Mary Kate: Thank you for having me. It's so good to see you and hear your voice as well.
Mel: Amazing. So start us out by [00:03:00] sharing a little bit about who's Mary
Mary Kate: Kate.
Who are you? I would say in this season of my life I am a seeker of a few different things. Most of which is gardening tips and knowledge in that regard, seeing as I'm abroad farming. But by day, I'll say I am a mentor coach and group coach, running groups for women to help them get in touch with the truest version of themselves, I'll say.
Mel: I love that. And that's a lot of, like, what you do. I always challenge people to, to like, think to the next step of like, that's what you do, but who are you?
Mary Kate: Oh, you're already getting me with the good questions. Who am I?[00:04:00]
I am a person who loves to move. exercise, dance. I spend a lot of my time with my 10 nieces and nephews. I spend a lot of time dancing in my kitchen, dancing at local concerts, and I almost always have garden soil underneath my fingernails. By attending to my plants. And recently I took up pottery as well.
I like to create.
Mel: Creator, I love it. Yeah, and you are I'm so excited to have you here because, so we met on, uh, As many of my guests, people will start to notice the trend, but at the Flourishing Center, where we did the Certificate of Applied Positive Psychology, though we weren't in the same class, I think you were working there already at the time, if I [00:05:00] recall correctly, but we went through that, and I've always loved it.
Your just kind of way of being with other people and this lovely kind of presence that you bring to the world. So I'm, I'm answering the question for you a little bit because that's who you are, is this, uh, right before we pressed record here, we were talking about how you are kind of this, like, you're like the mother in the room that takes care of everybody, makes sure we're all good.
Uh, asks all these questions that challenge us and make us think and, and, and.
Mary Kate: Thank you. That's very nice of you to say. Yeah.
Mel: And I'm excited to have you here because I'm trying to think if you're the first. No, I had a male on, so you're definitely not the first, but the first, like, one who doesn't have a child necessarily in, you know, as your child, but still consider you very much this mothering soul.
And [00:06:00] you pitched this idea about talking about the permission to change your mind, and I'm super keen to dig into that. So tell me, like, what were you thinking with that?
Mary Kate: Yeah, uh, the permission to change your mind is. An idea that's very close to my heart, because I live my life, I try to live my life with this permission slip, if you will, , first in front of my, my mind all of the time.
I have changed my mind pretty major life decisions I've pivoted from throughout my life which have changed the trajectory of my life, and if I hadn't had the courage to do so. I would be a way less happy, less fulfilled version of myself and I wouldn't be tapping into the potential that I know that I have nearly as much if I had not changed my mind time one, time two, [00:07:00] time three and so on.
So I think it's something that we need to almost normalize and talk about and in doing so I think it gives people permission to change their mind too.
Mel: Yeah, definitely. It's reminding me right now, is the movie, is it called The Butterfly Effect, I want to say, or something like that? Basically, the concept being that every decision we make in every single moment of our day does change what could happen to the rest of our life, right?
And we can change our mind again. Like, we are constantly making decisions, which can seem like a very overwhelming concept. This idea that you're saying that, like, you can change your mind, that's okay, is like, I feel a weight off my shoulders with you saying that. I'm like, oh, yeah, I can change my mind.
It's okay.
Mary Kate: Yeah, because we get so caught up in a plan, big or small, I like to think about this idea of [00:08:00] like micro decisions and macro decisions because we are making choices throughout our day all the time. Everything from what am I going to wear today to what am I going to feed my children and so on to am I going to move or am I going to leave my job or get married or like we're making choices all the time and I, I've come to realize anecdotally and through the women that I work with that we arbitrarily make decisions about our future just for the sake of making a plan for no other reason than just to have a plan because our mind likes certainty.
And so we have this like goal or plan in mind that we then work towards. And there's not a lot of consciously checking in on the plan. Most of us, myself included, this has happened to me several times in my life. I'll set a goal and make a plan and I'll get such narrow [00:09:00] tunnel vision on the plan that I'm blinded to any sort of opportunity or deviation from that thing unless something big happens where I'm like, Oh!
No, this isn't what I want anymore. Or someone knocks on my mental door and is like, are you sure this is something, this is a good idea? So our mind just can play a lot of tricks on us in that regard. And really just keep us narrowed and focused in on the thing, sometimes to our detriment.
Mel: Yeah, agreed.
And what it makes me think of, uh, Which, I heard this thing on a radio once, and it was a really random story, but about this person who changed their mind, essentially, without going into all the detail, and it was This concept that we believe now that we're going to be the same person in the future.
So we're making these plans based on this person that we think we are, because we are right now, but we don't know what we're going to be like in six months, three years, 10 years, 15 years, [00:10:00] and whether that decision that we're making would be the same one or not. Right? But we assume it would be.
Mary Kate: That's, that's so good.
That's such a good point. And That brings me to this idea that I learned from a woman, a mentor of mine, I'll call her. She explains just taking the next best step and kind of then, like, taking a little bit of action and then leaning back and seeing what unfolds. Because there is so much that we don't have control over.
There is so much that we're unaware of. Of just inner workings of other people's lives and things happening that we have no idea. And so, taking the next best step is going to open up a world of possibility that we can't even fathom being here. Because we're only here and we only know ourselves here. We don't know ourselves three months from now, to your point.
So I really love that. I think it's a beautiful thing. Brilliant. And it also helps to take pressure off of ourselves. I used to work at a university and so I would get college [00:11:00] grads in my office constantly being like, I am graduating and I have no idea what I'm going to do. You don't have to have your life figured out right now.
You don't have to have your dream career. You're making plans for five years down the line when you have no idea who you're going to be or where you're going to be or what you're going to want to do. So just take the first step and then see what happens. And they're like, Oh, Oh, great. I can do that. I can take one step.
It's like, yeah, it's a little less
Mel: overwhelming. Exactly. And we did the same thing with our kids, right? Like, I remember being asked, like, What do you want to do when you grow up? I was like, I don't know. I don't even know what I want to do right now. Like, let's, you know, we put this pressure on. We're essentially training kids to think this way, too.
And put that pressure on. But I love that next right step thing. And, and, yeah. I don't know if you've watched Frozen 2, but I think most people probably have, in the mothering space. And like that song about the next right step when she thinks of her sister, [00:12:00] I sing it like all the time now in my head.
And when I watched that, I think we were in the cinema, my dad had just been diagnosed with leukemia, it was like a big emotional time in my life. And I remember, like, crying in the cinema to this song in Frozen 2 because I was like, you're right! Just the next right step. You don't have to know, because there were so many, so many uncertainties in my life right then, right?
I didn't need to know. And it was like, permission to not know. Just, yeah, just take one step.
Mary Kate: Yeah. It's, it's such a helpful frame. I mean, humans like certainty. We like control. Yeah. And that's why we make plans. That's why we make plans. I mean, when I was, I also have five older siblings. I'm the youngest of six kids and My older siblings are pretty closely grouped in age and there's a little bit of a gap and then there's me and so I grew up [00:13:00] conversation gratefully so because I owe a lot to my upbringing and my parents and childhood.
I grew up with conversation around college applications and resumes. So I, there's always been on the reverse side of that, though, this tendency of me that I have to catch up to my siblings because all of my sisters have young children now. So there isn't, there's been an element of like me making plans for my whole life.
For the sake of trying to catch up, and it wasn't until recently I realized firstly there is no catching up because it's, it's my life and everyone's just living their own lives and comparison is the thief of joy and that is a cliche but it is also very true. And so I stopped trying to catch up, and I'm now living the life that I want to live which brought me to New Zealand, currently.
Which is [00:14:00] a wonderful choice that I've made.
I love
Mel: that. Tell us a little bit more about, like, how does this fit into your life? This, this concept of giving yourself permission.
Mary Kate: I'll I'll use the example that I kind of just touched on first. I, oh, I have four sisters and one brother. My four sisters all have young children. I said earlier that I have five nieces, five nephews, and they bring, they make They bring me so much joy, they're a huge part of my life.
And so I am a pseudo mom. I say, of course, I'm an adult, but I'm a pseudo mom most of the time. And, I have this very strong desire and impulse to be a mother myself. And God willing, one day soon, I will be a mother. And At the risk of maybe oversharing, my husband and I were talking about starting a [00:15:00] family sometime last year.
At the same time we were having these conversations, I was doing a lot of pretty intense coaching with a woman I know, my coach. And through some introspection, I realized, oh, this desire I have right now in the season of my life, mid 2023, to be a mom, isn't authentic to me right now. It's actually because I want to feel like I belong more to my family because all of my sisters are in this stage of having kids, raising young kids.
That was a huge realization for me. So I changed my mind. I sat with that information for a while. Of course, it's like taking the next best step. So like, I, I uncover this awareness. I sit with it for a little while. I kind of let it settle into my body mind system, and I encourage most people to take more time, space, and breath to do that [00:16:00] when an awareness is uncovered.
Talked with my husband about it, like, Okay, I don't want to start a family for the sake of wanting to belong to my own. That doesn't seem right to me. Of course, he completely agreed. And so, we once again pivoted. This is just one of many examples of us pivoting. But I know that When I do become a mother, I am going to be so, so happy and so excited because it is going to be a decision and a happening based on my own true genuine desire and not any external expectation or pull.
Mel: Yeah, that's amazing. Like, good on you for noticing it, firstly, to take the time to sit with it after noticing it, and then. You know, go from there, the next right step, which isn't, I'm going to decide when I'm going to be ready. That's not the next right step, right? It's like, okay, not now. Uh, [00:17:00] like five years.
Braining for five years. It's like, no, just sit with it.
Mary Kate: See what happens. That's such a good point, Mel, because a version of myself a few years ago would have firstly freaked out at the deviation of the plan to not have a baby when I planned to have a baby, and secondly would have said, okay, if not right now, then let's, let's, Like, talk about it six months from now and I, I would have started to create another plan.
And that's not how the conversation went this time. It was just, okay, let's just keep the conversation open and touch base on it. And when it's feeling good for both of us, then we can go from there. Which just feels so much better because there's not as much pressure. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah, like self pressure. And I'm curious of how, I don't know how open you are with talking about this with other people, [00:18:00] so that that might decipher the answer, but I'm curious of like how you find others respond to you saying this decision.
I,
Mary Kate: I haven't really told, I mean, I'm sharing this now publicly on a podcast, and of course I made that decision before coming on to your podcast, but I hadn't told many people that. I told a couple of my sisters, and I believe my mom, too, and they were just super supportive, like, yeah, you should absolutely have a baby when you want to have a baby, not for any other reason, so that's great, and, you know, that's cool.
. If you want a baby, here, you can have a baby right now, just in light of it, because I'm surrounded by young kids. But yeah, it's been met with nothing but support, which I'm grateful for, truly, because there, I could equally see it being met with some disapproval or judgment. Hmm.
Mel: Or concern that like, you know, cause as women, we, we have this [00:19:00] pressure on us because of our bodily clock, right?
Of like, you know, we can't just decide when we're 60 that that's what we want to do, right? So there's this external awareness and pressure, I suppose, because of that awareness that, that sits there. And I'm curious if it sits, if that sits in you alongside this decision. Oh,
Mary Kate: yeah. Oh, yeah. It's so funny you mentioned that because I was just having a conversation with my husband about, larger sociological trends in dating and, things of that nature related to things are shifting, but a woman's biological clock has not shifted.
Right? So that does, I would be lying if I said that doesn't enter my thoughts around this. Yeah, it's a, it's a funny thing because women are getting married and having kids later and later. And [00:20:00] I won't disclose my age, but I, I think, I mean, God willing, I have a little bit of time, right? As far as the biological clock goes, but I do think there's a lot of, expectation that is put on women based on how old people perceive them to be, at the very
Mel: least.
Yeah, for sure. And we navigate these, uh, expectations in so many different ways, whether that be around, you know, having a child to, like, what we do with our kids, whether we, like, all the decisions that come after you have a kid are, like, we've, I know for me anyways, and for a lot of the people I spoke to around me at that time, there was this, like, magnifying glass on, like, are they sleeping?
Are they good? Which is, like, The worst phrase in my mind. Like, don't ask if a baby's good. Babies are good because they're babies. Like, they're just good because they're human, you know. But what they really mean is like, are they sleeping? [00:21:00] And are you nursing? And are you, you know, all the like little nitty little things that we can judge each other on and compare each other.
on mostly out of the fear of the fact that we might be doing it wrong. It's usually not judging the other, it's like judging ourself. But comparison definitely comes into it a ton, uh, post baby, but I, I have a feeling like pre baby too, right? Like just in women in general, we are comparing ourselves.
Mary Kate: And it goes back to the idea of a permission to change your mind, because. So we live in a society that expects certain things of us. at certain times, whether it's, you're a woman and we're talking about getting married at a certain age, and then having kids at a certain age, and then having another kid at a certain age, and then all the expectations that come from that, are they sleeping, are they good, you better be breastfeeding, are you breastfeeding?
All of that sort of stuff. [00:22:00] If you deviate from the plan that society kind of has laid out for you, and from an external circumstance and sort of way then you're seen as, lost or a failure. There's implicit. sadness or disapproval or something in deviating from the grand plan that our society has laid out for young people.
And more specifically, if you have a plan and then you change your mind and deviate from that plan or pivot, it's also seen as some sort of inherent loss. But something else that's coming to mind around motherhood, having kids, the number of kids you want to have, the, the methods of which you decide to get pregnant, all of that stuff.
Mary Kate: There's inherent, like the self judgment you mentioned, there's, there's dread of having, like, if you decide to change your mind, at least personally speaking, there's so much dread and shame of like, oh my god, I have to tell [00:23:00] these people again that I'm changing my mind, and you feel like you're a failure in some way,
you said earlier, if we're growing and changing, And in this positive psychology world, it's all self development. So we are growing and changing. I would argue we're meant to grow and change and evolve throughout life. Then, of course, your, your plans and decisions are going to mirror that. Changing your mind should be an encouraged and celebrated aspect of one's life.
Mel: Yeah, definitely. But so here's, here's what it's making me think of, because often in the coaching world, coaching is described as this space where we help people come up with goals that they're going to go and achieve, right? Which veers into the planning space. So I'm kind of questioning now. like the validity of that, if we're saying that actually planning Maybe it's not that planning doesn't have purpose [00:24:00] because it does have purpose in that it gives us more confidence moving forward, but it, it, but, you know, we're saying it has this downfall and that we can change it all time.
Mary Kate: Yeah, that's a really good point. So there's, of course, with everything else, there is a balance to this, right? And so I'm not suggesting with this idea of changing your mind that you're like, following your every whim or impulse or just, you know, shooting from the hip throughout your entire life. I do think having general plans and structure are really helpful.
And there's, I mean, you and I know the science on goal setting and how it's really healthy for us to have things to work towards. Achievement is an aspect and pathway of achieving a flourishing life. So it's super important. And I tell my clients to hold all of these things very loosely. So sure, let's come up with goals.
And I typically don't create smart [00:25:00] goals with my clients. Because humans are messy, the coaching process is messy. So for example, I'm working with one woman whose one of her goals is to find her authentic voice. And only she can say what that means to her. And so she's defined that for herself, but we're not having her find her authentic voice at a certain timeframe within a certain measurement, right?
Like that's, that's silly. So I do think in the personal development coaching space, having big guide posts, even if you want to call them that versus goals can be helpful. And then holding all of that very loose. Being able to lean back enough to see the bigger picture, the, the forest, instead of getting so focused in that you're only seeing in the trees.
Mm-Hmm. ,
Mel: how does that sit with you? Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I'm kind of just thinking through my own relationship with planning and. change my mind and such right now. And, and I, cause I'm a, I'm a futuristic strength on the, [00:26:00] one of the strength fighter things. And so I think big, I'm big vision, big thinker, love to get into the nitty gritty of like, what's this going to look like?
How's it going to feel? But it's very big. Or let's say if I was gonna, if I was going to be facilitating a workshop, I would have a session plan that was detailed to the point. Like, I'm going to talk about this and then. I would go into the session and barely look at it, and that's intentional, right?
Because it means that I've put all my thought into it beforehand, so that I feel comfortable knowing that I can change when I need to. If it's like, oh, we're going to run over, we need to talk about this for a lot longer, because that's what's sitting well in this space, so we can just delete this, because I know I said it will take approximately 10 minutes, so we can just take that out, right?
Like, it kind of gives me the ability to change my mind by planning. Right?
Mary Kate: That's quite a paradox, and I love that. It is! [00:27:00] It's so true though, I mean, if you, if you speak to any sort of performer, stand up comic, any, like, speaker, workshop facilitator, I do the same thing. I plan. a lot on the back end, so when you go up to the stage or the front of the class or whatever, it seems like you're winging it, and sometimes you probably are because you have the structure embodied, you're confident and rooted enough in the structure where then you can pivot and change your mind as needed, still having the security of the structure in your mind.
So it's definitely like with everything else, right? It's definitely a both and. Yeah
Mel: and that just shows you that like you can, you can have both. You can still go and plan and the key is you're still giving yourself permission to change your mind at any time and that removes that pressure, right? So you might decide At some point with your husband, it may be not right now, but like, I think in two years, this is [00:28:00] going to be the time because we have these things that we want to do in our life.
And I think like, you know, two years, I'm just throwing a number. Don't take that to heart. That's when, that's when, like, we'd like to start trying to have a child. Right. And then a year from now, you might be like, No, that's not looking like the right time frame for this reason or that reason, right? And you give yourself that permission.
So you made the plan so that you feel comfortable, right? Because like you say, as humans, we like a plan and then it's okay to change. So you get kind of the best of both worlds.
Mary Kate: Mm hmm. Yeah. I do think. It, it comes down to, this is just occurring to me, it comes down to perception and mindset around it.
If you have, if you're grasping and have so much attachment around your plan, that if something goes wrong, which it inevitably will, because that is life, if something goes wrong or a wrench gets thrown into your plans and you freak out and really have a a strong [00:29:00] response to that, then you're probably grasping and attached to the plan a little too much because it's to the detriment of your well being.
You're not flexible enough where you're able to ebb and flow with the wrenches and the curveballs that life throw. So it, it does, again, come down to, I think, holding it loosely. And also, I can, I can share another personal example of me changing my mind. My husband and I at the tail end of COVID decided that we were going to purchase an RV and work on the road, and travel around the country and then kind of figure out a spot where we were going to call home temporarily.
And. All of that came to fruition. We bought the RV and moved out of our apartment, hit the road. And, I realized, I don't know, [00:30:00] six weeks in probably sooner, honestly, that, Oh, this was not going to work. Both of us were full time in this thing while figuring out how to live in an RV in a small space, it was just.
too much too soon, and when Mary Kate doesn't have access to fresh vegetables and exercise regularly, she becomes a monster! And that's kind of what happened. So needless to say, we cut our plan short, and we went back to Syracuse, uh, moved into another apartment, and took care of others. We've been there since.
This was a whole rigmarole, as you can probably imagine. And us deciding to, again, well we pivoted away from like the apartment thing, the house thing. Like, no, we're gonna go hang out in an RV for a little while. That was one decision. Got some side eyes from, from some people. And then we had to change our mind again a short period of time later to come back to the apartment and say to some people, Hey, yeah, you were probably right.[00:31:00]
This didn't work out, but we tried it and it was good. A lot of lessons learned, all that good stuff. But there was so much, my point here in sharing this was that we had, gratefully so, we had the flexibility to try this lifestyle and pivot because our basic needs were met. We were both still working, so we had income, and we had each other, which was important, and we still had access to, like, the basic needs, so I also think, More intention and time and thoughtfulness needs to be, uh, considered, depending on the type of decision that you're making, too.
Mel: Yeah, definitely. And your situation, what's your income level? And like, do you have kids? And like, if you have ten kids, you probably won't fit in the RV. You know, like, there's a lot
Mary Kate: of choices. Even if we had a dog, we wouldn't have done that. [00:32:00] The fact that we don't have any pets or children yet. Yeah. Which is partially why we did it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
Mel: for sure. Yeah, that's a really great example. And, and it's fine that you go back and, and it would be easy to feel embarrassed by going back to those same people. Right? Oh, yeah. And I'm sure you like battled that a little bit. And Getting through that and saying, you know, like, I'm proud that we went out and gave that a go, because now we know, now we know that that wasn't going to work out this season in my life anyways, who knows later in life.
Mary Kate: Yeah. When you think about, I mean, people make decisions, and it changes their mind all the time and when you think about something like that, which is a bigger life choice. And you realize once again, Oh, I have to change my mind. I have to tell these people there's that dread and that shame that I mentioned.
What I said to [00:33:00] myself and my husband was, okay, am I gonna be miserable in this box? For fear of what's gonna happen when I go back home and tell some friends and family that it didn't work out, because when I say that out loud, that is ridiculous. So it's kind of like, you have to have the courage to say, you know what, I tried this thing, it's not right for me anymore.
And I'm choosing something that's going to support me better.
Mel: And in my mind, I'm, I'm relating this to the, the moms in the groups and especially the ones with the younger kids who, as much as most of us don't want to say it because it's full of shame, there is a stage after you have a kid that you're like, shit, what have I done? Right? And you can't really change your mind on that one, like you've got the kid, but maybe you change your mind around some of the things that are making you feel that way, right?
And it [00:34:00] might be where you live or who you're with or the support network that's around you. So like, eventually I moved from England to Canada so that I had a support network around me, right? So that I had the grandparents down the road who could come whenever I needed to. get a break or do some work or whatever it might be, you know, like this Wednesday, I'm like, Oh, can you just pick, pick my kid up from school?
Cause the other kid has to go over here and do this. And I'm still working. And like, we just need that extra bit. And. You know, that was a really hard choice, and it was a hard choice because it was a hard time, right? And sometimes you make those big decisions because you can't choose not, you can't choose to go back in time, right?
All you can do is choose, okay, this is the facts, this is where I'm at, this is the season of life that I'm in, and honestly, the first stage is difficult for every parent. And so what do I do with that? [00:35:00] And those are the choices that you then get to make. Right? Which might, like, my husband thought we'd be there for a fair while longer.
It's like, no, we, that's not going to work for us anymore. Once the second kid came into the equation, because the stakes, it's like 10 times harder, not two times harder, just saying...At least.
Mary Kate: I would imagine too that making decisions and pivoting around decisions related to your kids is inextricably more complicated and difficult.
Yes. I can imagine a mother of an infant picturing their child at 18, at 30, like, putting that pressure, maybe I'm making this up, but I could imagine someone putting that pressure on themselves to make decisions on breastfeeding or formula, [00:36:00] or the school that they're going to go to, or all of that sort of stuff.
But the idea of this is going to shape who they are, this is going to impact the rest of their lives, which could be true to a degree, and that mind chatter, that story, is probably not helpful in the moment. So, the next best step idea is coming to mind too.
Mel: Exactly. What's the next step? best step towards that.
And so, you know, we recently went through that. We changed schools in September. My, my daughter was in a public school and going into grade three, September, my son was going into kindergarten and we decided we wanted a different school because, you know, but we had to dig into that about why that was.
Right? Like, what are we really looking for? Not running away from. What are we running towards here? And I think when we put that mentality on it, it completely shifted. It became, what's the next right thing? The next right thing is why don't we go look at some schools together, like all of us, and see how it [00:37:00] feels.
And let's all be part of this, like, collaborative process. We might still decide to stay. We're not saying we're moving. We're not saying we weren't moving, but moving schools. Okay. And it was all about that next right thing. But you're right, that pressure. There were definitely days where I just, I could feel it building up in me.
Of this, like, this is such a big decision. Such a big decision. And if I get it wrong, Like, the whole rest of their life is screwed, which is just nonsense, right? When you're, when you're outside of that decision, you can look back, but in the moment, it feels like that. And the next right step or the next right thing is just, even if you don't know what the right thing is, it's just what feels right.
That's where intuition comes in, just something, just, just do one thing towards whatever that is. And so we started, the thing we were reaching towards was slowing down. That's the life we want, [00:38:00] right? And we worked through it and we did all this like cool stuff about, because I'm very into nature, so the whole like metaphor of the tree and the roots and school is one of our roots that provides us with all these things that holds us up and keeps us strong.
So what does this school provide for us? Where do we get the other parts in our life? And So much of it all came down to the fact that we were trying to move too fast because you had the COVID super super super super slow and then all of a sudden you just go because you get to go into like all the lessons and the various things and It was too fast and it didn't suit the lifestyle, especially of my older one.
She needs a lot of home time. She's a homebody and so are we in so many ways, right? So yes, uh, I think the point of what I'm saying there is reinforcing the whole, like, next right step [00:39:00] and also, like, know what you're moving towards. Doesn't have to be a plan. It could be a feeling.
Mary Kate: Yes. Right? It could just be
Mel: a feeling.
Yes. And we're still moving towards that and whatever decisions will come from that, right? It's an ongoing thing.
Mary Kate: There is so much, you just shared so much wisdom Mel, there is so much to be said for following your feeling and your gut around something, and not necessarily having to have justification as to why you're stopping, starting, temporarily pausing something.
With this idea of, I work, I work mostly with women and so we talk about using our intuitive knowing and our gut level feeling a lot. And so with this next best step idea, what you're doing so beautifully with your family is slowing down. Because we live in this world that's like, we're expected to have [00:40:00] quick, fast answers all the time.
And then data and rationale and justification for why we have these quick, fast answers. And humans don't operate that way. Mostly, I should say, generally speaking, a lot of women I know don't operate that way. And so for you to, with your family, to take a step back and pause and say, what are we actually searching for here?
Coaching speak, that's transformational level, transformational agenda level stuff. Of no, you're not looking for the right teachers and for your kids to have, you know, 30 minutes of playtime versus 10 minutes of playtime in their day. No, that's all like presenting level surface stuff. You're looking for a shift in your way of life with your family, which is to slow down.
And because you took the time to actually step back and contemplate on it, you were able to get to that intuitive feeling level of this is what we're craving as a family unit. We don't give ourselves permission to [00:41:00] slow down enough in our day to day to get in touch with that feeling enough to make an informed next best step.
Mel: And craving's an interesting words and word in there, right? Because craving makes me think of like ice cream. Right? And therefore it has like this negative like craving is like something that is naughty that you're not supposed to have when actually it's so much more than that in the context that you just said, right?
Craving is that, that knowing. That knowing of what we really want, how we really want to feel. And it's not a, it's not a detailed thing like ice cream though. Like, I mean, I want ice cream too, but it's, but it's actually, it's, it's what that gives me. It's not even the ice cream. If you want to go even more into depth, right.
Is it, is that like feeling of comfort and safety and you know, that's, that's what we're craving. And so I'm curious, [00:42:00] like. I'm curious of the people listening of what, like, what are they craving right now, if they allow themselves to slow down, like you say, in whatever way that looks for you, because it's very hard to do.
For me, it might be going for a walk in nature, like, I was kind of go, go, go today, and I'm like, I have to walk my dog, and it's very difficult to make myself do it sometimes, and I know that it will slow me down, and it feels so much better afterwards, right? So whatever, method you have to slow down, even as simple as like, just sit on the floor for five minutes and don't do anything else, right?
Just sit. Uh, that's super hard as a mom, especially. That's a go go go er. So yeah, slow down and, and like, see what cravings come out of it, right?
Mary Kate: And I appreciate that you picked up on that word because I didn't even realize that I said craving. But [00:43:00] something else that's coming to mind too, I'm, I'm hearing some of my sisters in my mind be like, Mary Kate, you think you don't have time now, you think you're busy now, but when you have a kid, you have, and they just give all these examples of like, the most ridiculous things of multitasking with a kid screaming over here and something boiling over here, there's a mess over here, and no, for not being a mother, I think I have a really, uh, detailed look into what motherhood is like without actually having my own children.
And I want to offer as far as giving yourself space and time too, if two minutes extra in the shower or even a shower is not realistic, or taking a walk isn't realistic, or you have to bring your screaming child along and that's not going to be peaceful for you, just saying, like giving yourself more space with decisions and telling people, I don't know right now, I'm going to get back to you later.
Whether it's like your husband asking what you, you [00:44:00] want to have for dinner that night or anything big or small. Giving yourself more space to sit with the information yourself. I don't know right now, I'll get back to you later. And then not actually saying, depending on the situation, when you're going to get back to the person.
I'll get back to you later this week, I'll get back to you early next week, and not putting a specific date and time on it. Because that creates pressure and expectation too, which isn't even Necessary some of the time. So, the idea of just like, yeah, I don't know right now. I'll know at some point, but the space that we're talking about, that's where the clarity is going to come from giving yourself that time and space.
Mel: Yeah, I completely agree. And I don't know if it's just as I get older, or and or, you know, being a mom. it impacts it, but more and more, I find myself really craving the desire to just make a decision at the time that some, like, in terms of what I want to [00:45:00] do. I don't want to decide what I want to do on Friday because I don't know how I'm going to feel on Friday, you know?
And yes, of course, with work stuff, like we had to plan this meeting so that we'd show up, right? There are things you have to put into place, but it's an interesting phenomenon that I'm observing in myself and I, I, I feel like others probably feel that too, is this like desire to, to just be able to make a decision at the time in terms of how I feel and what I want to do.
And I think I'm very privileged that my, my kids are now at that stage where I get that little gap of time where I get to decide. And I've got that flavor now that I'm like, Ooh, I want to give that up again. I really like just deciding in the moment what I feel like doing. And in the first few years of kids, you don't get that much of that, right?
There's no just, well, in, in some ways you do, [00:46:00] like you're, you don't get the time and space, but you get the, you have to just decide in the moment what you're going to do because your kid might be screaming when you're supposed to be going over here or you're, you know, you go it that way, but yeah, so that's what came to my mind.
And also this concept of, I think you touched on this a little bit, but once we have kids, all of our decisions impact somebody else. Every single Right? As little as, like, my kids are at school right now, but whether I choose to have a snack after this is still going to impact my kids, because it impacts who I am with my kids once they come home.
Right? It really, it really does. So, uh, you know, permission to change your mind. End. To just decide as you go, you know, which is, is a big part of changing your mind to trust that intuition. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to start to bring things to a close here, Mary Kate. [00:47:00] What would you say if you had one thing that you, wanted to really put across or a tip that you'd like to share with mums that are listening to this or women in general who are listening to this.
What would that be around any of the topics we've discussed?
Mary Kate: This may sound cliche and I'm going to say it anyway. Trust that you know what's best for yourself and your children. And I want to offer as well that The, the intuition, the gut level, heart level, knowing that we've referenced, that voice is way softer than the voice of the mind. [00:48:00] Your mind is gonna tell you all the things that you should be doing.
Your mind's gonna tell you why changing your mind is a bad thing. Your mind's gonna impose all of the fear and the guilt that you're likely feeling as a mom. If you give yourself space, And trust whatever whisperings of your intuition come up, that will likely lead you to trusting yourself more and a little bit more freedom in the regard of changing your mind.
Mel: I love that. I love that a lot. I really like the idea that your intuition is a whisper. And that's where the slowing down comes, because we don't hear whispers unless we sit and listen really carefully. Yeah, that's beautiful. Right. Thank you so much. If people, you know, you're a coach, you work with women, you do incredible work around all of the stuff that we've just talked about and so, so much more.
[00:49:00] If people are intrigued by that or just want to know more about you or get in touch, what would they do?
Mary Kate: Sure. You can find me online. My website is marykatescutt. com S C H U T T. I'm also on Instagram at Mary Kate Group Coaching.
Mel: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today here and yeah, speak soon.
Yeah.
Mary Kate: Thanks Mel. This was great.
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Mel: That is it, folks. This has been Mel Findlater on Permission to Be Human, the podcast, and I am so glad that you have joined us here today and hope that you have taken away some tidbits that will help you go away, connect with your big audacious dream, and make that massive impact in the world that you are dying to make.
If you [00:50:00] liked today's episode, please, please, please Like it, share it. Think of one person. Think of one person that you think would also like it and send it on over to them. Let's get this out there and more moms feeling like themselves. Inspired, Dreaming big and out there. Please do head on over to find me on Facebook with permission to be human or Instagram or you can even Off me an email and say hello.
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Yes, this is a newer podcast, so I want to hear from you and I [00:51:00] want to make it what would be useful to you. As always, remember that you have permission to dream big, permission to feel big, and permission to be you. You have complete and full permission to be human. For real, you do.
