episode 26 - Elspeth
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I am excited to share one of my favorite people from my time living in. England, her name is Elspeth Fimpel. And she is such a lovely, lovely person and has a really inspiring story where we're going to dig into. What it's like to shift from the [00:01:00] commuting early. Leaving your house life going into the corporate world to following whatever feels right that day and building a business called Joyful Outdoors where she combines. Sorts of things that she's really interested in. And thinks will help the world and the people that she's working with. And that includes things like laughter yoga and getting out in nature and learning about the local nature that is out there and what it can do for you.
And. I really really enjoyed this conversation with Elspeth and i think you will too. so stick around
Mel: /Okay, we have Elspeth with us today. Hi, Elspeth. Hi, Mel. How's it going? So good. It's so nice to see you again. We got to see each other in March, which I'm excited about. Elspeth lives in... England, you can maybe say a little bit more about exactly where because I can't remember the, the names of everything anymore, sadly, but [00:02:00] we met, I don't know, how many years ago was it that we met?
Elspeth: I was reflecting on this. Well, the first time I spoke to you. Yeah, was in 2016. At Yestival yeah. And I had been on a career shifting course, which I'm just repeating now. And they had tasked us with going out to chat to three complete strangers. And you were one of those strangers. I had no idea.
That's awesome. Yeah, I had arrived on the Sunday morning, so obviously I felt like I'd missed the whole party because everyone was best friends by then. And you were sitting there with Eira strapped to your front, and you must have just started Ordinary Superparents. And I remember you talking to me about that.
Mel: Yeah. You know what, Ordinary Superparents actually came from that, [00:03:00] from that event. Oh, was it? Yeah. I'd been thinking about things and then and then I, I stood up on a Sunday morning, like maybe just before that or something. Before you arrived on the like, open mic time and said like, what if we had this?
Missed everything. Yeah. So just for our listeners, is a festival all about Yes. Run by Say Yes More in England and I highly recommend it. And I went when Eira was only, Eira's my first child and she was only like a year and a half. And that was my first time really getting out of the house and going, Oh yeah, I want to do this.
I booked it like four days ahead of time because I just saw it. And I was like my husband came home and I was like, Oh, I think I found this thing. And like next year we should do this. Cause I know, like, I don't know how we're going to make that happen this year. It's in like four days. And it's like, we have a one and a half year old and we're camping in [00:04:00] November in England.
It's not going to be very nice. He's like, yeah, yeah. And I sat with it for a while. I was like. But I really want to go, and a good thing I did because it led to me having those ideas around Ordinary Superparents, which is Elspeth was part of, which is the community that I started when I was in England, and really desperate for having parents who were not okay with the concept that, like, life is only about parenting once you're a parent And that wanted to go on adventures both with and without their children and really explore explore, actually, point.
So so that came to life when we were at Yestival together, probably just before we met by the sounds of it. Yeah. . So, Elsbeth, I always start with the probably hardest question cause it's super [00:05:00] broad, which is just, tell us about you.
Yeah.
Elspeth: I am nearly 50, docker, in a month, I'm trying to ignore that. , I have two kids. They are now nearly 16 and 13, and we live in Surrey, in England
Mel: what does life look like for you?
Elspeth: Well, at the moment, I, was working in London. I had a corporate job a very sensible, serious corporate job. And I left a couple of years ago for Lots of different reasons. I kind of knew that it wasn't working for me there.
A lot of political changes happened internally, which gave me the opportunity to ask for redundancy. And I knew I wanted to explore [00:06:00] something else, but at the time I just didn't really know what that was. Actually, and as part of the whole kind of snowball of Say Yes More, I had been exploring a few things and had been to a bushcraft course that autumn that spring, sorry, just before I left work.
And so over the last couple of years, my life has changed entirely. I've gone from being a very stressed city. Working, commuting, mother hurling two children into childcare at 7. 30 in the morning and picking them up at 6. 30 at night, you know, with an hour and a half commute either side to now running my own business.
An outdoor business called Joyful Outdoors, and I've been doing that for a year, and now I'm kind of at the point where I'm thinking about [00:07:00] how to take that forward, how to grow, how, how it needs to morph and change and develop what about it is serving me, what isn't, that kind of thing, so yeah.
Mel: I love that. Firstly, the name of Your business is amazing. Joyful Outdoors. As you know, I love the outdoors and all things that nature does for us and it does bring the joy. Right. I know there's a lot of factors involved there, but to make that shift from. But like a pretty big shift from the corporate world with a very specific type of life that is, you know, busy.
And I imagine you like commuted in to go to that as well. Did you?
Elspeth: Yeah. So I live about 30 miles south of London. So that's an hour and a half door to door into the office. Yeah. So they were very long days. [00:08:00] My husband was commuting as well. It was pre Covid. Yeah, so we had a very busy, very stressful life. And I just wanted to get off that hamster wheel. Yeah. I probably wouldn't have had, had there not been an awful lot of changes actually at work.
I'd probably still be doing it. But would I have opened up this other avenue? I don't know, but
Mel: anyway, yeah. Something happened that made you think, Oh, okay, maybe this is possible, right? And, yeah, this looks better than this. That's great. And when you did that, were you already thinking that you would like to do something in the outdoors?
Or what was your,
Elspeth: when did that come about? I think I really knew, I knew I wanted to explore doing something outdoorsy. [00:09:00] I think I thought, oh I'll just go and do, you know, a week's bushcraft course and then I'll be a qualified bushcrafter and then I'll be able to teach bushcraft. And obviously life isn't quite like that because I, that I think, I can't remember when that was, that must be, you know, two and a half years ago.
I walked into that woodland and realised pretty quickly. That I didn't, couldn't recognize one tree from another, didn't know the names of any of the plants, didn't really speak the language that, that other people around me just seemed to be understanding. You know, I'd have to keep stopping. And I had explained to them on Friday, I was in the office and, you know, today I'm in the woods and I'm looking for change.
And they were like, yeah, yeah, that's nice. And I'd say, well, could you just explain to me what that means? I don't know what a ride is. Well, [00:10:00] it's an open pathway through a forest, but I didn't know that, so I was like, you know, instructive just was a bit like, yeah, I'm not going to explain every single word to you.
But, it really struck me that week that I was grotesquely detached. from nature and, and really didn't have a clue and it wasn't really good enough to learn the kind of practical skills if I didn't understand the bigger picture. So I've spent the last couple of years really following my gut and following things that I'm interested in and Also following people that my gut has drawn me towards, you know, people whose energy I've, I've liked and that's been a really valuable and interesting path.
And [00:11:00] now I'm at the point where I just want to delve deeper into nature connection. I want to just there's so many things I want to explore. No, but now I have this love of wild plants like I never went into this thinking. Oh, yeah, I want to teach foraging. Wild plants and laughing.
That's what I really love. So I've ended up with this weird business where I'm teaching foraging, bushcraft and laughter yoga and navigation. So it's quite broad. But yeah, very
Mel: interesting. So interesting and. There's a few things that I love about that, but the one that's sticking to mind is this concept that you went, you went in and felt like the outsider, as you put it, like, I don't know what you're talking about.
And I think, especially as women, we can run into that quite often. And it would have been so easy for you to walk away [00:12:00] at that point and just be like, Oh God, I'm so stupid. Or like, you know, all the self talk like we can have, right? This really negative self inner talk, which maybe you still had, but then you got past, right?
And you're like, no, I'm going to figure this out. Like I want to be the one who knows the answer to what a ride is, which I didn't know, by the way. I was like, thank you for sharing that. I think it's a very good program probably as well. But but you know, to have the courage and resiliency to like, be like, okay, I'm going to figure this out and do the hard thing of, of figuring that out is just,
Elspeth: yeah.
And it was a really tough, tough week, actually, just thinking back to that course and that week. I was so exhausted at the end of it that I literally came home, sat in the bath, and cried for two hours. Partly because my husband, who I hadn't expected to [00:13:00] clean or do anything nice while I'd been away, I arrived home and he had cooked, brought me flowers, and tidied the house.
I was so pleasantly surprised, yeah. And so overwhelmed and exhausted from that week and all the new information I'd had to take in, yeah. It just, yeah, I just wept and
Mel: wept and wept. Yeah. And the, and the transition, you know, from presumably feeling like you know what you were doing in your corporate job, I'm guessing, to like, what the hell's happening here?
That's like, that's a lot. That's a lot. And entrepreneurship, well, you clearly know quite a lot more now. Entrepreneurship is like that journey though, isn't it? Like, I constantly don't feel like I know what I'm doing, right? And I might be a step ahead of someone listening who thinks I then know what I'm doing, right?
Because that's what it is like for us humans. We look at someone, we think, oh, I couldn't do that. I don't even know how I would start. But I didn't know how to do that either, and I didn't know how I would [00:14:00] start. Right. And yeah, just through practice and talking to people and, and going through that learning process that we get to the next step of that.
And I
Elspeth: think I didn't really, I'm not a great one for forward planning. And so I don't think I really thought in my head. I want to start a company in a business. I think I just thought this is how I'd like to spend my time. And how can I do that and earn a bit of money? And now I'm at the point where I'm like, okay, I need to be a bit more businesslike about this now.
And I need it to actually obviously I need to be true to myself because I can't roll back the clock and ignore all the things that I've realized over the last few years. But I do have to turn it into a bit more of a business. [00:15:00] And I've had great highs and crushing lows. And as you know, you know, I cancelled our first appointment because I was too busy weeping on the floor a few weeks ago, you know so yeah, it's a really emotional journey and doing it on your own.
That's, I mean, I know you're all about community and it's a really valid point, isn't it? But it's really hard. I find it really hard to do things on my own. I need to do things in collaboration and with people. The village and with the support of other people and running a business on your own is hard, especially when you're an extrovert, especially when you're somebody who likes to be outside.
I don't want to sit at a computer writing a blog or doing social media. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All of that
Mel: we've had to learn. Exactly. And it is this massive learning curve. Right. And as you say, like, I think anybody [00:16:00] who's listening, who's tried something. New will have wept on the floor at some point in time,
Elspeth: right?
Honestly. More than once. And if you
Mel: haven't, then probably there's more new things to try, right? Yeah. Because it's the things that we really believe in as well that, that, that can lead us down that path. And that's being human. Right before we started recording, you were reading a sign on your wall. Can you read that for me?
Elspeth: Yeah, I can't read it that from this far away, but my eyesight is so badly sated. Emotions, emotions are just signals and show I'm alive. They're normal, healthy, and human.
Mel: Yes, exactly. And... I think so often that part isn't talked about when we're off there chasing our big audacious dream, which for you at the time, [00:17:00] maybe as you just put it, it's like, this is just how I want to spend my time.
That's the dream that I just want to feel right about life. You know, yeah.
Elspeth: Yeah. It's really straightforward,
Mel: isn't it? Yeah. Like, isn't that all of our dreams really is that we want to, like, we want to do what we want to do. I don't want to feel
Elspeth: sick going to work. Yeah,
Mel: exactly. Maybe feel a little healthier.
And like, Oh, I'm outside and that makes me feel good. I'd like to do a little more of that. And it's such a beautiful way to, I love that. I love that you described it that way, because so often we can go into the like, you know, the mission, vision, values of our business or whatever. But at the heart of it is that we're just trying to figure it out because we want to make ourselves feel better and want to make others feel better, generally.
Right? Well,
Elspeth: I think on that point, [00:18:00] I, I just wasn't the best version of myself working in the city. I was angry and frustrated and agitated and I really didn't know why. You know, I just, and that, that didn't serve, definitely didn't serve my husband very well, didn't serve my children and my parenting very well.
And yeah, I mean, that's not to say it's. Idyllic now, you know, I'm, I'm not the best version of myself all the time now, but I'm a lot closer now than I was back then.
Mel: Yeah. And the best version of ourself is one that learns from each time we go and you have the space to learn now, you know, yeah.
different than before. And I think we can all say there's been moments of stress and we can, we can change the external parts of our [00:19:00] life all we want, but there's also internal things that are, we're shifting, right. To become that best person. Best version of ourselves and the best parents and such.
Elspeth: Yeah.
Yeah. That's exactly it. And, and sometimes I, there've been times when I've lain down and cried over the last couple of years and I've gone, Oh, it wasn't the job. That means it's actually just me. I've carried myself with me. You know, I've got rid of what I thought was the, the factor that was, you know, causing me such stress and angst.
But it turns out it wasn't just that. Yeah, it's, it's me too. But yeah, it's just all a learning curve, isn't it? Learning
Mel: about, and once we have that space, right, once we have that space, we realize that like giving yourself the space was, you know, what? It took to start to realize it, [00:20:00] which sometimes I'm like, I just want to go back to that really hard thing so that I can ignore all these things that are happening.
Absolutely.
Elspeth: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Sometimes it's so tempting to give it all up, isn't it? And to just go back to the structure and the routine. And the paycheck and, you know, that's not to say I won't at some point or, you know, maybe I'll do a part time job and and do my joyful outdoors part time as well.
But I don't, it's just, it's very tempting to kind of think, oh, right, I'll just part the difficult things, as you say. But I don't think that's the solution either. Yeah, for sure.
Mel: So tell me more about the combination of laughter yoga, which I've done once, by the way, and it was like the best thing ever.
I've been to find more of it. Laughter yoga, foraging, all of the things that you combine together. Tell us, like, [00:21:00] what is that? Where, where's that come from in the evolution of I've always been someone who's really got lots and lots of different interests. I've never been someone who's kind of focused on just one thing.
Elspeth: And when I started this a year ago, I just, I kind of knew in the back of my head, I didn't just want to do. or offer one thing. And lots of people along the way have said to me, get really good and well known, you know, at one thing before you add the other things. But I think I didn't want to leave any of them behind, and, and some things have just caught me by surprise.
Like, Laughter Yoga is not something that I sought out. That is a gift from Beck's Band, who asked me to go and do the training course for the volunteer weekends that [00:22:00] we do for Love for the Wild. And, turns out, I really love it. And because I have more time and energy and attention now to listen to my gut, I just paid attention when I finished that weekend course and drove home light laughing.
No, you know, the least stressed I've been in years and I thought that was great. I love doing that. And then now when I wa, when I run the work workshops, I just love it. I'm on a high. Yeah. But I also realize it's actually none of it's about me. It's just this amazing gift to give the people in the group and.
I've had such incredible feedback and everyone starts out very self conscious that they like you were saying you know, and I, I felt self conscious when I first started [00:23:00] running these sessions, but somebody said to me, when we felt uncomfortable, you were the anchor, you know, we just kind of zoned back in on you and tuned out the discomfort and.
I just, I absolutely love it. So now just as an example I did a session with a corporate group on Friday and then I was able to say to them, you know, when they asked me months ago what I could offer them for their kind of closing session for that conference. I could say to them, well, if your theme is healing then why don't we walk around the woods and talk about the medicinal and healing properties of, The trees and the plants and oh, we can talk about some of the reasons why it's just really good for our health and for healing ourselves to be out in nature.
And oh, by the way, we can finish with the lauighter yoga session and we'll all leave on this massive high. And they were all hugging each other and holding hands. And I was [00:24:00] just like, Oh my God, I didn't come down for days. But so go back to your actual question, which was. How, how come I do so many different things now?
Mel: I'm going to stop you before yet. Because now I'm down the laughter, laughter, okay, yeah, which firstly, that's amazing. I'm like visualizing this as you're, as you're talking about it. And these like corporate people going into the, the nature, whatever that looks like there. I picture the trees because that's what my nature is here.
But and. Yeah, and then coming out laughing at the end and for the sake of our listeners who maybe haven't heard of laughter yoga Could you tell us what it what it is in a nutshell? Like what does it look like? Yeah,
Elspeth: I mean, I think some people get the wrong impression because the word yoga is in there But it's actually just a sort of laughter wellness session.
So it's the combination of Moving, like just moving your body and [00:25:00] a lot of breathing exercises and laughter exercises to facilitate the actual laughter because I'm not a comedian and it's a choice for people to laugh. And the sessions are really about
personal resilience, you know, anything to laugh and how that is so good for our health. How it moves your diaphragm how it floods your body with dopamine and oxytocin and serotonin and endorphins, you know, all those great things, which we don't access if we're just sitting. And even if we're watching a comedy or laughing with friends, we laugh in quite not, not a shallow way.
I don't mean shallow in terms of being not, not valid, but, you know With our head voices or our chest voices, and we never really belly laugh. And so it's that, [00:26:00] it's trying to get into that belly laughter, which is really therapeutic. Yeah. If it's, if it's done in a intentional and
Mel: sustained way. I love that.
Yeah. Belly laughter. And I, I remember being told by that. So I went down to a session and I ended up being the only one there and we're like, let's do it anyways. So we tried and it was entertaining. We just did a little micro snippet, but. Yeah, you know, this concept that our brain doesn't know the difference between fake laughter and real laughter and that we can still get the emotion and the endorphins and all the the goods that come from forcing ourself to laugh, which is how it's going to start because if it's not funny yet, then it's a forced laugh.
And I imagine that then it turns into the belly laugh. Yeah. Right. Because you can't stop. Yeah. And I'm sure everybody's had these moments in their life where like, [00:27:00] I just can't stop laughing. It's very rare and few between. And sometimes I think I don't laugh enough now. But I think of these times where like, They're usually super inappropriate.
I don't know if you've had this, but like, I went to an event in London, actually, with a friend, and they were like, I don't even remember what it was about, but it was like a serious moment, and we got into little groups and had to do something, and then like, report back. And when we were in the group, something happened, I don't even know what it was, that just started making me laugh.
And like everybody else is calling us back. They're like presenting everything and I just can't stop like I'm crying because I'm laughing so much. And I'm like, this is so inappropriate. But it was such a great release, which is probably why I kept going. Right? I was like, this is what my body clearly needs.
Just let it all out. In the same way that we let out a cry, you know, but it feels feels better in the [00:28:00] moment. a laugh than it does to cry. But you get that same feeling afterwards of just like, Oh, yeah. Okay. Like
Elspeth: things have shifted. Yeah. Yeah. It's a massive release and some people do cry. Like I've had people laughing, laughing, flash crying because it's all accessing the same the same place, isn't it?
And it's just a massive release. Of emotions that people have been people have been suppressing
Mel: exactly because we do we suppress so many emotions in our culture and society, right? Yeah. Joy. Sadly, one of the biggest ones. Yeah. So I love that you are bringing that laughter healing or laughter yoga to. An outdoor space, which also gives us all the healing that I blab on about it all the time.
And bringing those together is such a fun thing. I'm like, going in my mind, I'm like, Oh, I'd love to do that with kids as [00:29:00] well. Like the preschool that I work with, like, let's do a little laughter. Oh, but that would be
Elspeth: such a great audience.
Mel: Yeah, because like, it's actually, they don't have as much. Because
Elspeth: it's so natural for them.
Mel: Exactly. They're like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Elspeth: yeah. Yeah, so I don't always do it outside, but I, I do love doing it outside. And yeah, yeah, it's great. It's really great.
Mel: That's awesome. That's awesome.
Okay. I don't remember what question we were going back to you, but it doesn't really matter at this point in time. Because I think where we've gone is a good one. And, you know, we've dug into the, the transition. In your life, which was a big one and for many, it's a transition, whether that's from a corporate job, whether that's being from being a stay [00:30:00] at home mom, which you might still be doing, but also trying to follow the dream.
And I guess, I mean, you might have answered this already, but I'm curious what you'll say if, if I say what is now the big audacious dream.
Elspeth: So now, yeah, like I said, I'm really poor at those questions where people ask you what you're going to be in five years time or where I want my business to go. I, I know what feels good and what's working for me and what I enjoy and the impact I have, and I want to do more of those kind of things.
So for me, I can see the impact is where I can inspire people. To get out in nature. I can inspire people to start loving wild plants [00:31:00] and to start getting curious. And as you know, that's really important, isn't it? It's really important to feeling comfortable in nature, to get to know a little bit, to participate a little bit, to taste it, to smell it, to touch it, to know it.
And wild plants and our native trees in England, you know, that's kind of the way I'm doing that. And I love it so much when people tell me, how excited they are when they've got a bit of knowledge and, you know, people react in the same way that I did a few years ago, which is like, oh my God, how do I not know this?
Our grandmothers would have known this. Their villagers would have taught them. They would have learnt this stuff at the knees of their, of their elders. Why don't we know this? Stuff that we should know I work with adults, not, not small children.
So, you know, I'm trying to get to the people who, who think it's too late for them and it's definitely [00:32:00] not. Yeah. Yeah. But you can see the shift and, and I love that. So I want to keep. Keep doing that, do more of that, work out how I can have more impact. I definitely want to do more singing around a campfire.
I am not, haven't quite made that happen yet. I'm not quite sure how to kind of make that happen in a more formal way. But yeah, that's
Mel: the sort of thing. I love it. And I can see that you're like, I'm not sure how I'm going to answer this question. But that was like the most beautiful answer because you described, I think the broad, in the broad sense, what all of ours.
Dream is right this concept of I want to do more things that make me feel good and that my gut just an intuition say go do and I want to create you right and and it's a journey [00:33:00] of figuring out what that looks like as we go Right? Yeah. And I think that's really beautiful. It's, it's a really lovely way to go, to go about it.
Cause it's easy for people like myself who are the big sky thinkers to try to get that specific instead of remembering to just follow her intuition. And be like, okay, like, yeah, my big, my big one is this together world that I want us to create this village that you've mentioned in this, this space where we're all in it together.
And it's okay if I, along the way, like, I might not know what that means, right?
Elspeth: But it's been so interesting watching your journey as well. Yeah, but you know, having seen actually having known you just at that nugget at the beginning and watching how beautifully you articulate, [00:34:00] you know, things now, it's so interesting to watch and I think we're listening to some of your recent podcast episodes.
We're definitely at about the same place now. Mm hmm. Yeah. In terms of, you know, wanting. Just this need to be out in nature more, need to connect with people more, need to get other people in on that journey and, yeah, stop their disconnection.
Mel: Yeah, definitely. And I think it's, it's interesting that you point that out and that you were there, yeah, the nugget of my journey.
And I think, you know, even with that community that I started in the UK, the ordinary super parents, I, I was still kind of like in my hesitant phase, cause I felt like I had to get it right before I could explain what it was and as the years have gone on, I've gotten to the point where I don't care if I get it right.
Right? And that's actually really hard. And like the podcast has been a great way for me to [00:35:00] practice that because I'm talking to an empty room sometimes when it's just me or talking to someone like yourself and like being okay with the fact that I don't have to get that right. And don't get me wrong, I'm still totally self conscious about some of the episodes that are just me talking.
And I'm like, oh, it's just me rambling, why would someone want to listen to that? But then if I listen back to it, the odd time that I, I force myself to, I can see that there's, there's like nuggets in there, and it's okay if it's not perfectly articulated yet. But it's better. articulated than it was yesterday, and the day before, and the day before, right?
Yeah. And I think that's an important thing for everybody to remember as they discover their voice, and whatever that means for them, that it, someone described it, I'm trying to remember who this was now, because it was like a famous person that described this as a faucet, that when you first turn on a very new [00:36:00] faucet, It comes out murky.
It's like quite dark. And as you leave it turning on, it's clearer and clearer and you can see through it. Right. And that's what life is. And that's definitely what our dreams and entrepreneurship and whatever route that takes us is. Right. It's gonna. Yeah. And if we can work on ourself. And being okay with the fact that the murky stuff is coming out first, then we'll eventually get to the clear stuff.
But we can't just, like, magic wand it to get to the clear stuff. It doesn't work that way, right? Like, as much as I'd love it to, I'd like it to be perfect right away. No, actually, like, I gotta be okay with the fact that it's not gonna look perfect. It's not gonna sound perfect.
Elspeth: Yeah. I'm not that hung up on perfection, I think. Yeah. And I hang on to, I mean, I had a... Very great [00:37:00] coach. And I hang onto some of her words, you know, which are that you just have to follow your North Star, find your NA North Star, just follow it and you don't have to see what the end of the journey looks like.
Hmm. And sometimes I'm really comfortable with that ambiguity and sometimes I'm really uncomfortable with that ambiguity. But I just, I'm just fumbling on . Yeah,
Mel: we all we all fumble, I guess is the point, right? Like it's that's okay. Yeah. Okay. So as we're going to start to shift towards closing here.
So I'm curious, having had all the conversations we've had and knowing that we have moms listening in who are at a lot of different points of their journey. Some will be like, yeah, just thinking I'd really like to do something. That [00:38:00] is either with my family or outside my family. I really, like, I feel like there's That, like you described, that impact and there's an intuition path, my intuition is telling me go somewhere, go, like, let's get something do something, be something, whatever you want to describe it as, because it's not about doing more, but they have this dream that's held inside that they're not yet sure on.
And then we have ones that are like, this is, this is it. This is the, or they're murky water. This is it. Right. And we have some that are further along, but I'm curious, whichever stage of those that you'd like to speak to, what you would, what would you say to them that might help them along their way?
Elspeth: I think I would say to the mums who are in the thick of it and still have [00:39:00] really small children hanging off their trousers. you know, for whom they still have to do an awful lot. I, I would say that that is just a phase that you move through and there will come a time when you have more physical and emotional space.
I remember being very frustrated having very small children and thinking that that was a very, very tough time for me. And quashing lots of dreams that I didn't think would ever happen. But as my kids grew older, I started to involve them in some of my dreams. Also I think. You know, adventures can be really small, can't they?
You [00:40:00] know, you know that as well as I do. Adventures don't have to be big. They can be really small. Just, you know, head out with your kids after dark and, you know, go for a dark walk or... Take a camping stove and go out and bacon sandwiches at the top of the hill and watch the sunrise. You know, that's that can be adventures that keep you ticking over trying to surround yourself with people who understand that you want a bit more.
It can be really easy to vocalize things and then let them disappear if other people shoot them down. Oh, you can't do that. Don't you see you've got two kids, you know, you know, you have to nurture and protect your Your hopes and your [00:41:00] dreams a little bit and just maybe share them with people who will lift you up and support that and even maybe help facilitate it, you know and then it's the kids get older.
I mean, you know, I've just what comes to the forefront of my mind, Mel is again, how I was inspired by you and your workshop at A subsequent Yes to Bill and Cath to take the kids out and walk one of the pilgrim paths in Spain. And that's a journey we started five years ago. We're still doing it. We haven't finished it.
We didn't do it all in one go. We've done, you know, we've done three stints. But we've walked 400 kilometers, you know, I think the kids were, I don't know, maybe eight and 11 when we started, they'll probably be 18 and 15, 16 when we've finished, you know, but that's just been an amazing mind opener for me.
It's been [00:42:00] an amazing thing for my family to do for my kids. It's an amazing gift. I think I can give the children that they'll have this big achievement that they'll have. you know, walk this big trail by the time, by the time they're 20, maybe even 18. You know, so if you can, if you can think of something that you can take your family along on the journey with, then that's an amazing thing and just break it into accessible chunks.
And then the other advice is, I mean, I did a lot of traveling by myself when my kids were small. I left them with my husband a lot. You know, because I needed that time and headspace and I would go away for a week and. You know, he would, you know, carry the load for me and I very much appreciated that.
So [00:43:00] lean on your partner and tell them what you need
Mel: or your grandparents or like whoever or
Elspeth: yeah, your support network, whoever it is. Yeah. Whoever it is. Because even if it's the day or 24 hours, you can, you know, get, get some of what you need. In short bursts, and then when you can, you can make those times a bit longer.
Mel: Yeah, I think there's so many good points there. I'll go with the last one first of that. Like, take the time you need, right? And don't get me wrong. Like, so I just went away for a week. I just went on my, like. Not first, well, first week long, like mumcation with no learning conference I was going to or anything like that.
I just said, Hey, I'm 40 this year. Two friends went and we went to Maui and it was incredible. And it was exactly what I needed. This [00:44:00] constant, like, it's easy to forget that when you're a mum, you're always responsible for somebody else. My kids, my pet, sometimes my husband, even like the house. There's just so many responsibilities that having a break from responsibility where you just get to follow intuition and be like, do whatever you feel like at the moment, like I wasn't, I didn't over plan it.
I actually had a friend who planned a bunch and I just got to go with, which was great. But the point of me saying that is that there were hardships at home because I was away for a week. You know, my daughter who has some anxiety was more anxious. And struggled and my husband struggled with that, right?
And it's okay because that's part of life and actually like having those hardships and learning that they then got through it. Is also really important. And don't get me wrong, like I, I battle the [00:45:00] guilt that comes with that. Yeah. But I battle it knowing that, or maybe I just accept it actually. I'm not even battling it.
I'm just accepting that there will be guilt that comes with that. And that allows it to
I don't know the words that I'm trying to use. It allows it to feel smaller, I suppose, and be taken over by the compassion for myself that I really needed that. and that I came back, that are able to take up the reins and come in with compassion for the feelings that were happening and all the things, right.
Elspeth: So yeah. And then the knowledge that actually you going away won't break them. Exactly. Exactly. It might be uncomfortable for them, but it, you know, but it's. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And actually, as we were having that conversation, I was thinking, I am in a very privileged position. I was in a very privileged position that I [00:46:00] could go away and that my husband was incredibly supportive.
And, you know, I, I made sure I had some savings to do that, you know, and I prioritized going away and short trips, but yeah, I mean, there were times I, I took, when I had a small child, 18 months or so, I went away a couple of times just with her. I left my husband behind, I said, I just need, yeah, I just need something, a change of scene.
I need to get out of this house. Yeah. Well, that brings up And changing the scene with, with the young one
Mel: is amazing. Exactly. And that brings up the adventure theme, right? That's where the whole Ordinary Super thing came from, this Ordinary Superparents thing came from. Yeah. Because it's that change of scene, you know, like we bought a camper van when we were in the UK as our main vehicle too, because we didn't want to, we couldn't afford like an extra vehicle.
And It was because I wanted to be able to just [00:47:00] drive somewhere and go sleep. And like, in fact, that time when we were just talking about that laughter yoga workshop I went to, I drove to London and parked on the side of the road and slept by myself. It was terrifying and wonderful, right? But it's the little things that we can do.
And you know, sometimes that that's with kids. And sometimes it's not that just shift our perspective camping for even one night or two nights. Yeah. So much work. And it's so easy to convince myself that like, it's not worth it. And then go and come back and it's like, you feel like you're away for a week and everybody's just in a better mood.
Yeah. And. It becomes worthwhile.
Elspeth: Yeah. And I was, wow, nearly 40. I
mean, I can't remember exactly when, but you know, I just, I had never done it as a kid. I didn't have any kit. [00:48:00] And a friend took me out that first time with the kids and I was on the way home. We pulled over into one of the big camping warehouses and I just bought the kicks. I'm not, I'm not going to let that stop me again.
Yeah. Yeah. Try and remove the little
Mel: obstacles. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what, that's actually what the camper van for was for us, which is obviously a very extravagant way to solve that problem. But it was, I can keep all the kit in one space. So you could use the same in a box so that there's no excuse.
It's not going to take me a week. To pack first, I just run in, grab like two sets of clothes and run out and, and go. And when I was really ambitious, I just left clothes in the car. But, and figure out the food on the way, who cares, right? But yeah, so I think adventure has a really big space in. [00:49:00] Our life in whatever way that looks for you, just doing something that's a little bit scary, a little bit different and changes the scene.
Elspeth: Yeah, definitely.
Mel: Excellent. Well, we could do a whole episode about that probably, but we should probably wind this one up and say goodbye. But thank you so much for having us here. Where can people find you if they are like, I'm, I'm in the UK or I don't know how much you like to travel these days, but you know, I'm wherever.
Please come and work with us and do some foraging or some laughter yoga or both. And how can they find you?
Elspeth: I'm on Instagram at Joyful Outdoors. I'm on Facebook.
Facebook Joyful Outdoors, or my website's joyfuloutdoors. co. uk. Yeah. And all my contact details are there. Yeah, I'd love to, love to hear from some of
Mel: your listeners. [00:50:00] Amazing. All right. Thank you so much, Elspeth. Thanks.
Elspeth: Well, lovely to talk to you. [00:51:00]