Kari
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Oh, this is such a juicy one today, folks. And I'm so excited to share it with you. Today's an expert interview with Kari Gormley, who we not only get to hear her story as a mom and building resilience and growing and flourishing as a human with her own. Big audacious dream, but she gives us some really super practical things that we can [00:01:00] go away and do right now, too.
Flourish as human beings. And everything that that includes. And what I love about what Kari explains is. She's so good at remembering the science behind these. She's not making these things up. Folks. These are things that have been. Backed by so much research. And really shows us how we can take little incremental steps.
Towards bettering our wellbeing.
Kari Gormley helps leaders focus on energy management, emotional intelligence, and using their strengths to do the work that really matters. She's a coach facilitator trainer and the host of the flourishing experiment podcast.
Kari's big audacious dreams are that everyone has a resiliency toolkit. So they spend less time worrying and more time enjoying their lives.
So, as you can imagine, Carrie is full of juicy [00:02:00] information and experience, and we are so, so lucky to have her here, speaking with us today and sharing so many of these goodies. With you and with me all right stick around i can't wait for you to hear this
Mel: /
Hi, Kari. Hi Mel. So good to have you here today. Let's just start out a little bit by you telling me a little bit about you. I know about you. Tell the listeners a little bit about you. I've actually known Kari for, I don't even know, a couple years maybe about right. We've done some coaching together.
Literally like. Kari, you've coached me and helped me through whole, all sorts of things, and, , and also just being part of the flourishing center and the positive psychology work that we have learned. So, I'm so excited to have you here today and share everything that you know, not everything that you know, tidbits of what you know.
There's no way we could do everything, you know, in half an hour, but also to hear [00:03:00] your, your story as well.
Kari: Sure thing. Well, first things first. Mel, congratulations on starting the podcast. Thank you. I am so proud of you. I know this was a dream of yours for a while and you're doing it.
Mel: Yes. Thank you. Yeah, it's a big one.
And I do like to tell people like it, like I thought about this for four years, right? Oh, I didn't. Okay. I did. And, and sometimes that's how long it takes. Exactly, you know, the time wasn't quite right for for it at any other point. And then I just put my brave pants on and said, now it's time. Now it's time to try and get it out there.
And, , it, it makes a difference to me and I hope makes a difference to the listeners
Kari: out there too. I'm sure it does. It's an example of what we learn in positive psychology of good, bad, who knows? Mm-hmm. And some things that were so disappointed don't happen, can turn out to really work well. Well for you, um, you had asked to share a little bit about myself and, um, Uh, I will share them out here in Wilmington, Delaware, [00:04:00] just outside of Philadelphia.
I originally grew up in Wisconsin and I've lived in Sweden and Stockholm and also in Northern Virginia before here in Delaware, and I was brought to positive psychology. I. As someone in a depression who didn't know what to do, I had just run three marathons in six weeks. They were my fourth, fifth, and sixth marathon.
And afterwards, this may be a shock, but I was injured and getting the endorphin high from running wasn't a possibility. And about a year after I ran that last marathon, I just found myself without a big goal. I didn't feel well, and I thought I was doing all the right things. I still was exercising. I was going to therapy.
I had medication. I have a nice, nice lifestyle. What the heck is wrong with me? And what I did is I went to the bookstore and I found out about something [00:05:00] called Positive Psychology, and I read a book and then I read Positive Psychology for Depression, and it was a real catalyst for me to want to go and receive a certificate and applied positive psychology from the Flourishing Center.
I had met Emiliya that summer and I thought, oh, these are some really good tools and. Why haven't I learned them before? I really liked the structure of them and their tools that anyone can use at any time, and I really like this phrase of some tools work for some people. Some of the times
today what I'm doing with Positive Psychology is I do have a podcast. It's currently on Pause, but it has over 350 episodes. It's called The Flourishing Experiment. The first 250 episodes was called The Running Lifestyle Show, and that was back when I was running a lot of marathons and even though I was talking about running, there was a lot of nutrition in there.
We talked to, I talked to authors of books I was interested in that [00:06:00] weren't necessarily about running, and then the podcast pivoted when I said, okay, you know what? The real focus of this is how to live a good life and what are the skills and tools and the science that you can use to, to help you live that life you wanna live.
I am a fellow mom. I have a son who he, I have a son, William, who will be a sophomore in high school and a few months, he's a fellow runner. My husband likes to run and. They are constantly my Guinea pigs for trying on these different positive psychology tools in, in our house. I say that the most important word ever is yet.
Mel: Yeah. I love that. That's, I say the same. It is one of the best. Right. Especially with the little ones for us, but for all of us, um, yeah.
Kari: It's, it's yet, and then one of our favorite practices at the kitchen [00:07:00] table, at the dinner table is to say, okay, let's do three good things and why, or best, worst, and funniest.
And it can be a real catalyst for laughing at things too. For instance, if, , I go to the coffee store, the coffee shop, and then maybe they get a wrong order and they're really apologetic, it's a, it's a great opportunity to say, oh my gosh, if this is the worst thing that happens today, I'm gonna have a heck of a day.
And or if something really funny happens and someone's embarrassed, I'll say, oh, at home we do best words. And funniest, I think I've got my funniest. Hmm. For the day. So it really puts you by having this practice, it puts you in a frame of mind of to look for the good. And when challenges happen, we're not saying don't worry, be happy when challenges ha happen is okay.
How can I use self-compassion and to come up with a quick plan to help me bounce [00:08:00] back from this, and not to just stay angry, frustrated, whatever it may be. Now we know, Mel, of course, that it's important to feel your feelings so that you're not stuffing them because what you resist, persist, and there's also a balance of feeling them and saying, okay, let's go on to the next.
Mel: Yeah. Oh, there's so much, so much there. Um, firstly, I love that you are, I've always admired the, your ability to bring humor into life and situations, and that was a really good prompt with the best worth, best, worst, funniest. It's quite challenging to say, um, we do best. We do goods, like what's good in our house, uh, with the kids is a great one.
They're going to a summer camp this week, so I'm always like, what's good? And then my son wants to talk about what's bad, uh, right away. And I'm like, okay, well let's do what's good. And then you can say what's bad. Um, and then we talk about the fact that actually it's human nature to. [00:09:00] Notice the negative in our life.
Mm-hmm. So we want to say that this was bad, but we have to practice saying this was other thing was good. Um, but I love the addition of funniest on there because that will just bring those positive emotions to the surface. Right. And the idea of then finishing on that will. We'll keep those going forward.
So I really, really love that. Um, and then when you were talking about, uh, running, that was, that was definitely, I actually just came back from a run. I'm doing the coach to five K right now. Nice. All right. Uh, I was, um, just doing a little, a little live right before we started talking actually about why I chose to do the small instead of the six marathons.
Firstly, I've never chose, chose marathons. Just gonna say that. But yeah. But instead of the, I'm more of a, but I will go hard. I'm like, go big, go hard. That's my like natural tendency as an [00:10:00] athlete for my life. But, um, This time I was like, Hey, I haven't run in like two months. Actually. I need my body and my mind needs me to go slow.
And , and I'm thinking about it from a positive p psychology perspective more than I ever have before. And I think that athletes, there's a real space for positive psychology in that world. And. Thinking about training our brains just as much as we're training our minds and learning that self-compassion and that self-love.
And I think of it as like I'm training my, uh, building the neural pathways and growing the neural pathways in my brain to realize that I can run every second day. For, at first it's only like eight minutes, right? It's like 60 seconds on, 90 seconds off, and you kind of keep going. Um, But it doesn't matter how much running it is because my brain is like, yep.
Oh, I can do it. I can run now and then, not to mention I'm not gonna kill my knees [00:11:00] and injure myself and all the things that we like to do when we work too hard.
Kari: Exactly. There's a lot of science out there right now that I am subscribing to that shows that women who are. They're perimenopausal, uh, time of their life to actually sprint all out for 30 seconds and then to maybe walk for five minutes.
So you really, really recover. And then to go all out and to work those fast twitch muscles. Uh, it's not the type of running I obviously did running marathons. It still gives a nice endorphin high. So a lot of my training has really evolved into zone two training where your heart rate's pretty slow, so if you're going for a walk and then picking and choosing when you go all out and you just go out for short bursts of time.
With that said, there's nothing that beats. That cardio that high, the endorphin high, it was just at Peloton [00:12:00] Studios in New York City and did a lot of classes on Monday and they were at higher cadences. And yeah, it was so much fun. And I have been recovering ever since and being gentle with my body, which I wouldn't have done before.
Yeah, it's, it's our vessel for our lives and how do we wanna treat this, this vessel.
Mel: I love that you've taken, you know, your, your journey that you're describing there is, um, is combining that, uh, that athlete, that running, that you had found, found an outlet, I'm sure to be able to give yourself that positive emotion through running and then, That injury taught you that there are other ways that we can also do this.
And, um, probably healthier, you know, more balanced ways to do it while still being able to once no longer injured, use your old, uh, technique as well. So I love, I love that example.
Kari: Yeah. Thank you. Awesome.
Mel: Um, and I love that you're out there doing your podcast. [00:13:00] I know you say it's on pause. I'm fully convinced you're gonna get back into it, but do go and listen to it.
I've listened to it and it is just so nice to hear the science behind all of this because so much of it is. Talked about lots. There's plenty of podcasts out there, there's plenty of books out there and you know, self-care and all of that. But what I love about positive psychology is that this is based on actual research.
Right? We're not just talk and fluff of our butts here. Right, exactly. It is based on, on, um, on real work and yeah.
Kari: And I think that's what the gift is of positive psychology that Martin Selig, Martin Seligman, back in the late nineties got a group of psychologists together and said, let's focus on what's right.
Of course, we have to focus, we have to help people who are south and neutral get to neutral. But what about going from neutral to north and it's. Very fulfilling to know that there's science [00:14:00] behind this. Of course, we've always had self-development and let's put the science to it. It's a, it's a younger field and it's a field that I.
Thankfully we were in it before Covid, so we had some skills ready to go. I, I think you were you take or no. Or did you take CAP during Covid? Oh, you did. I took
Mel: cap during Covid. It was the perfect time to do it, actually. Me. Yes,
Kari: it was, it was intense. It was intense. And, and you found that, as you mentioned before, Mel, that we're building new neural pathways and we can do it at any time.
And our brains do have a negativity bias. Yes. Because we have to be ready to like protect ourselves. But. Things aren't as they were in the prehistoric days where someone, something could jump out as and eat us. So it's, yeah, it's our training, our nervous systems to calm down. And a lot of times, I know Carol was on talking about havening is a lot of times we first have to [00:15:00] go to our amygdala, also known as Amy, to calm our bodies down before we can get to that prefrontal cortex and come up with a plan plan.
The havening and positive psychology work beautifully together.
Mel: Agreed. Yeah. And if anybody's listening and hasn't listened back to that Havening episode, I highly recommend it. It's , with Carol Williams Love and Havening, just in really simple, I. Terms is, like you say, getting into that Amy, and really like telling our bodies that we are safe so that we can actually start to, to think and use our thinking brain in the appropriate way.
And it's, it's, , a, a very body way of doing that. I like to rub my hands together. That's my favorite one. Um, I don't do it a lot on podcasts 'cause I feel like maybe you can hear me rubbing my hands, but I do do it a lot on like Zoom calls or. Anything else. Um, and you know, whether it's that technique or that tool or another one that people use, um, the key is like [00:16:00] all of these for me have helped to have that self-compassion and to realize that my body needs that, right?
My body just doesn't feel safe. So of course all these other things aren't happening the way they, I want them to. Right. Um, And that that's normal. That's human. That's human. Exactly. And that's the whole permission to be human thing. Right. That's why this podcast is called that is because as humans we will feel all the feels and sometimes we don't want to.
Kari: No, no, we don't. Right. Yeah, we don't. I just wanna checked real quickly. I saw it was episode number four. I wanna go back and listen because I adore both of you and Carol, so I can't wait to listen to episode four.
Mel: Awesome. That's awesome. Thank you. Um, right, so tell us a little bit about you and your journey and what is your big audacious dream?
Kari: Yeah, so my journey, I would say a big impact on my life has been [00:17:00] being very curious and curious about travel and other nationalities and. I grew up where my dad worked for General Electric, and if he had colleagues coming over from England or Japan, we'd have him over for dinner and our neighbors had exchange students, so I was always interested in travel and I was an exchange student in college in Northern Sweden.
Then I was really fortunate and had an internship at an American software company that is worldwide and had it in Wisconsin. And then I was able to actually work for the same company in Stockholm, Sweden for four years. And so that was, that was fascinating to be in an American company in Sweden, because the two cultures are very, very different.
I knew someday I would come back to the US and I did. After taking a trip around the world by myself and I actually landed in Northern, my gosh, my voice here. I don't know what's going on. I landed in [00:18:00] Northern Virginia and that's where I met my. Soon to be husband. And what happened was, or I shouldn't say happened, but we moved to Wilmington, Delaware where I was when I was pregnant with our son.
And we absolutely love it here because it's easy to get to Philly. It's easy to get to Wisconsin. It's excu. Well it is with a flight. It's also easy to get to Northern Virginia. So when you say, what's your story? I would say my story is following my curiosity. And learning in time. If I don't know how to do something, okay, well let's go and learn it.
I absolutely love to talk to people, hence the podcast. And I'm always on the lookout for something that will give me more energy, help me feel better, something I can share with people. I love to learn and to teach. And sometimes it's, it's being aware of, does this person want to learn this? And. And meeting [00:19:00] people where they are.
I think one of the, the greatest things you can do is to be out in nature with a friend, a loved one, and to learn something and to see water, and to see a mountain, and to have a temperature that is comfortable that. Is one of my favorite things to do. And of course to read a really good page turner is good times for me.
Mel: I love that. And what it brings up for me is actually, so cl i I can clearly tell, and I would've guessed this already about you, that, , via character strengths, so v i a character strengths, your top one is probably love of learning.
Kari: Love of learning, I think is, is in the top five. I think it's number three. I think number one is, is curiosity. There you go. Yeah. And then, and then I think humor and then love of learning is right up there. There. That's awesome. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. All of those And, and, and all of those are in [00:20:00] what you just said, right?
And curiosity is actually. If I was to say that I learned one core thing in the last three years through all of this journey through positive psychology, it is the power of curiosity, right? To be curious about why am I feeling something to be cur, like what is the belief behind it? To be curious about.
If I'm frustrated with someone else, actually bringing curiosity brings out the empathy as well. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm like, oh, like I wonder why they're acting like that today. Mm-hmm. Like, what's this all about? Um, it's helped me in like, I really don't like small talk, I'm sure. Oh, you weren't in my class class.
We did rules at the beginning of Cap, by the way, is certificate in applied Positive Psychology. Um, We did rules at the beginning of the class, and I, I said, can we, can we just skip the small talk?
Kari: Like I wanted that, [00:21:00] yeah.
Mel: I love that. And that's because I just really don't like it. And it's, it's, and bringing it back to the topic of curiosity, what I've learned is that I'm o I'm more okay with small talk now because I no longer feel when I go into a space of curiosity, I no longer feel like I have to be smart.
Right. Or that I have to say something smart. And actually if I'm just curious, one, it goes outta small talk quickly because my curiosity goes way deeper than like what they did that morning. Um, but also it just allows me to listen, right? Curiosity allows and enables us to listen without just thinking, what am I gonna say next?
Right. Um, so yeah, if there was one thing that I will continue to work on for the rest of my life and, um, promote that other people do too, it would be curiosity for me.
Kari: That's, that's excellent because you had asked if there was something [00:22:00] I could share from positive psychology and one of my favorite tools is active, constructive re responding, which is a real skill and something we need to learn.
Yeah, for sure.
Mel: Tell me about it. Tell let's, let's, let's teach something today. Yes.
Kari: Here we go. As I as, excuse me. As I mentioned before, we were talking about how the brain defaults to the negative, and so when someone shares with you something bad, your mind will go straight into, how can I help? This is terrible.
Why is this happening? And we're there for someone. When someone has something good to share. It's very common not to really savor that good news and to ask questions. It's how we're wired. We may be thinking about another thing. It's very normal for the brain to do comparison. So where someone may be saying, oh, I just ran this mile in, I don't know, let's just say seven and a half minutes, your brain could go [00:23:00] to, oh, I only do it in nine 30.
Oh, they're faster than me. Oh, they're better than me. Why can't I do anything? And down the spiral it goes. So active, constructive responding is a, is a really crucial key in, in research behind this. Why you should do this is if you ever are feeling down, if you, I'm not a psychologist. There is research done by psychologist Sonya Lubinsky, uh, out of, I think she's at Berkeley, and it was in 2007 that actually showed people who engaged in active constructive responding three times a day for a week, had less depressive symptoms.
So what is this active, constructive responding? It's asking follow-up questions. It's celebrating with people. It's savoring. There are actually four types of ways to respond to someone when they have good news. Would you like to know what they are, Mel?
Mel: I a hundred percent would because I have learned this, but I do not remember all of it.
So please, uh, enlighten [00:24:00] me and the listeners because I think just to lead into that, as you're talking about comparison and such, In relation to what our topic often is on here and our big audacious dreams. It's so, so common to listen to these stories that we're sharing on this podcast of people doing incredible things and to say, oh, I couldn't do that, or Right.
Or just mm-hmm. Get into comparison completely, because they might be that little bit further along their journey and, I think what you're about to teach us, I know that what you're about to teach us will help all of us to get outta that space and to be able to celebrate and be inspired because we do need inspired inspiration to create action.
And, um, if we can do this act of constructive responding, then uh, we will better be able to be inspired instead of compare.
Kari: Excellent. I found [00:25:00] through many years of teaching this that it works best as an example. So, Mel, if you could be my
Mel: volunteer here. Sure.
Kari: I don't think this stuffed animal on the wall is gonna be volunteer.
So, um, Mel, you're gonna share this four times and it's gonna be the same example and I'm gonna respond to you in the four different ways to, of, of responding. Can you please share something that is good right now that you're celebrating that you're like, oh my gosh, this is so
Mel: great. Yeah, I can do that.
Let me have a think for one second. Um,
Okay. The one that's coming to mind funnily enough is, is just something I'm excited about. Let's see if it'll work in this context. Uh, my friend who lives in the UK is coming to visit in like two weeks, and she is my favorite person of all times, and [00:26:00] she's gonna be staying with me for three days, and I am so stinking excited.
Kari: That's, that's nice Mel, and I'm really sure you're happy to see a friend and I just wanna make sure you don't overdo it because I know you have a husband, you have two kids, you have a big dog. I, I think it's a puppy. And you've been trained the puppy a lot and the puppy kind of jumps some people when you see them.
So I just hope between the puppy, the kids, your husband, And your friend that you don't like burnout or get overwhelmed by your friend coming.
Mel: Yeah. Thanks for pointing out all my anxieties.
Kari: So, so that is what we would call active destructive responding. I actively went after MAL and distracted her good news.
Mel: So, and you didn't really like this time, you did it on purpose, but we all [00:27:00] do this. Like that's the thing, right? Yes. And, and. The important thing is to catch yourself doing it. But we're not doing it to try to be destructive. No, absolutely not. That's thing, self-compassion, self-love as we learn this, right?
Absolutely. Um, because it, it is, it is the human natural way to sometimes
Kari: jump down that path completely. If you are thinking just now, like, oh my gosh, that sounds like something I would say, yeah. This is where we say how fascinating and permission to be human. Yeah. Who once you know better, you do better.
Yeah. Okay. Can you share your, your good news again?
Mel: Yeah. Um, I have a friend that is coming over from England for three to four days and I'm so excited to see her. She's gonna be staying in the suite and gonna go to the lake a lot. And I am, um, I'm just feeling really excited.
Kari: Ah. That's nice. Did I tell you that I am going to family camp this summer in Vermont.
It's gonna be [00:28:00] our first time, and I am so excited. And before that, we're actually going to go to Quebec City. Pretty cool, isn't it?
Mel: That's so cool.
Kari: Yeah. So that was being like, uh, that was being a little active, being active, but in a, in a constructive way. But still it doesn't. It's not helping you. Um, and you know what, Mel?
Uh, per permission, um, permission to be human, that was actually more of a passive destructive, did I just say that?
Mel: Uh, no. You said active, but
Kari: um, yeah, that was actually being more passive. Yeah. Active was when I was saying don't overdo it with your friend. Yeah. So I was one upping you. So that's passive destructive.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah. I can recognize myself and many others doing that.
Kari: Yeah. '
Mel: cause it does because we're wanna make connections as humans, right? So we're connecting that story. They just [00:29:00] shared with something cool like exciting that's coming up in our lives. It makes sense, but it doesn't feel very good on my end.
I'm like, oh, thanks for not caring.
Kari: Thanks for not caring and have fun at family camp.
Mel: Although I am excited about family camp and now I.
Kari: Um, I can do all you all about it, especially after we can, and actually that could be a tool to saver. I mean, that I'm sure it's gonna be great. And that's something where you come back and, uh, this is a little tease. You'll, you'll see how it's done shortly here, but we have another, another way to respond that is not ideal.
So tell me your good news again.
Mel: Okay. I have a friend coming from England to stay with me and I'm really excited to see her. Um, and she is, yeah, just one of my favorite people,
Kari: so I'm so excited. That's cool, Mel. Um, what are you going to make for dinner
Mel: tonight? I have no idea.[00:30:00]
Kari: So that was constructive. I did say it was cool, but it was kind of passive. It was like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So one last time, please share your good news.
Mel: I have a friend coming to stay with me, um, from England, who I am so excited to see and get to spend just
Kari: quality time with. Oh my gosh, that sounds really amazing.
Mel, what is your, your friend's
Mel: name? Sarah is her name and I just chatted with her a little bit this morning, so that's why it's top
Kari: of mind. Yeah. Wow. What are you guys planning on doing during those three days?
Mel: Uh, mostly being on or near water as much as possible because both of us love that and there's not much around where she lives in the uk.
So, uh, just taking full advantage of the lake and ocean nearby.
Kari: Um, I'm so interested. You had said that she's one of your favorite people in the world, and I'm so interested [00:31:00] how, why?
Mel: Well, she's actually the, one of the, she is the only person in my life, actually. No, my husband too, but outside of my immediate family, um, that understands like both.
Parts of my life. There's the UK life that I led for 14 years I lived in the uk. Yeah. And there's the Vancouver Island life where it's actually where she grew up, even though we met in the uk. So she understands both lives and, um, that identity that I struggle with a lot around like, which 1:00 AM I and which one's home, and all of that.
So, um, she, she is my. My heart on those, I'd say, yeah.
Kari: Oh, it's, it's almost as if you have a secret language. Yeah. 'cause you get each other so much. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That sounds good. Has she met your kids? Has Sarah met your kids
Mel: yet? Oh yeah. When we were in the UK we, um, she has a daughter who is similar [00:32:00] age to my older one and they're like best friends and, uh, we used to do like coworking, so we both had our own business, so, I would go to her house and we would take turns like playing with the kids while the other one got to work and
Kari: swap it out.
Mel: Oh wow. Um, yeah. Yeah. So she knows our kids very well and my kids love her as well as her kids. Oh yeah. She's like an aunt to them. Yeah, I think
Kari: so. Yeah. Are the kids coming too? Or just Aunt Sarah? Um,
Mel: definitely. At least one kid is coming. I'm not sure about the other one actually, because, uh, she has older kids as well, um,
Kari: as a teenager as well, but,
Mel: and a, and a 22 year old, something like that.
So, yeah. But definitely the youngest is coming and uh, I have to inquire about the rest. Yes, yes, I probably did. Let's see, when she told me, I maybe did active. Which one would it be? I probably got really excited and jumped to like, okay, what are we gonna [00:33:00] do? Or like something else. That was exciting. So that would've been what?
Kari: Uh, that would've been active, passive, active, active. Because you didn't, um, have the opportunity or didn't? Didn't choose or however you wanna say this, in a nice way. I dunno. Didn't choose. I got so excited about it that I moved on. Yes. You were so excited you went on to Yes. And the planning and celebrating it.
So it's human, we do it.
Mel: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And we do and and that, yeah. That's just what it is. Um, awesome. So that last one is active.
Kari: Constructive responding and this is what we wanna go for because we can use, as you mentioned before, your curiosity and this is what's shown to have stronger relationships.
You give each other that opportunity to savor, to really marinate in that good news. Also, it's time for you to really. Empathize with people too, [00:34:00] to think about how excited they are and to have more positive feelings. We've talked about a number of times, but we go back to that negativity bias. There's some research that says, oh, you need three positive thoughts for every negative thought there are.
There's some research that goes all the way up to 11. So think of it as you're really helping yourself by asking questions and letting someone savor it and. You'll probably learn something new. This is not the norm. I, I don't know if you find this Mel, but a lot of times, and with you being a podcaster too, that you can go and you can meet someone new and they may be jeopardizing the conversation for like 90% of the time, and it can be hard to get something in edgewise, and this is a great tool we can use at all times.
Yeah,
Mel: I love that. And it makes me think of a couple things because there's the benefits for ourselves in that. And that's the interesting thing about that research that you said is that it actually, it does, it helps us [00:35:00] to respond better to other people. And that is fascinating to me. Like we're not just doing it to be good, you know, or like to other people or to better the world.
Although all of that is amazing and, and it will do that, but it's also going to help us and it's shown to do that, and it is going to, Better your relationship, it's gonna make that, I was like, oh, like it got me really thinking about, yeah, this is why I really love Sarah and why I want her to come here.
And now I'm even more excited and like I can, instead of like excitement here, I can feel it down in like my heart now I'm like, yes. I really, I'm so excited. Um, and it, what came into my mind was the importance even after having learned this myself, uh, We naturally go down the other routes, the three other ones, depending on the context, depending on how much we ate that day, depending on, or maybe depending, you know, like, yes, everything and who we're talking to.
And it made me think of my [00:36:00] kids actually, and how I would really like to work on this more with, yes we do. What's good, like after camp, we'll, I'll be like, oh, what was good? And then we move on and actually I wanna be like, okay, like. Like, what was that about? What was, what about that thing you just told me is really good?
Like, or what's their name? Or like just asking questions and it doesn't matter even what they are so much, they're just questions. Curious, curious questions and um, and helping. Ourselves and the other person to do that. So it's a little parenting tip in there as well.
Kari: It, it's, I can tell you as a mom of a 15 and a half year old, sometimes the follow-up questions are not appreciated, like, why you're on these questions.
And, uh, so it's a, it's, it's a real balance in the moment.
Mel: They're not though, but you know what I am, I am absolutely positive that when they're older, they'll be glad that you asked so many questions, even if they [00:37:00] didn't wanna answer them. Because that's way better feeling than all of those other ones.
Yes. It's like, oh, that's good. I'm walking away. Then like, how does that make you feel? Loved? Right. But if you're curious, even if they don't wanna tell you, 'cause you're so darn nosy. Right. Then they're gonna feel loved and that's. Really what we want for our kids.
Kari: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, how do you spell love?
T I M E and maybe we will be now. Q U E S T. Yeah. N
Mel: curiosity.
Kari: A c r, active, constructive, responding. That's how you spell love. Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. And I think the other thing it makes me think of is sometimes I think it gives me words to realize why sometimes in a conversation I don't feel good at the end of it.
Right. And, and you, you look at it and like nothing bad was said, I can't figure out why I feel this way, but it's [00:38:00] because someone has, has responded in a way that is not active, constructive, right. So you don't feel as excited about the exciting thing that you just came in to share. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that's a really important thing to acknowledge that that's a normal feeling to walk away from a conversation with if it wasn't responded to in an actual constructive way.
Now, I'm gonna give a little tidbit as someone who learned so many of these darn tools and wants to go and teach my husband all of them, so that he can do them all with me so that I feel better about myself. Mm-hmm. Don't do it. Yeah, no, do it. Probably very sly about how you do it. Right. Um, and do it through example, I think is actually probably the best way.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And same with kids and, and anyone, right? It's like, okay, let's work on our own act of constructive responding. And then like, people [00:39:00] be like, oh, that was really nice how they did that. And maybe they'll start to pick up on it.
Kari: Yeah. Yeah, and, and sometimes, you know, it's about having the difficult questions.
I do remember one time, and it was early in my positive psychology, Journey that something really, really, really good happened to me. Yeah. And granted, I called my husband from the car 'cause I was so excited. I had just found out and he didn't say too much. And then, and then he was on to, um, you know, what are we gonna make for lunch?
Or he was, or he was going to the grocery store. So he wasn't in that full mood. And, and actually, I, I talked to him later. I said, I was so excited and I, I wish you. Had asked more questions and sometimes you can just lead someone into it. You can be like, oh my gosh, guess what happened? I can't wait to tell you 'cause I know you will.
So get it and savor with me. Yeah, you're kind of like really preempting them or persuasion, I think it's what it's called. Uh, let me savor this one. It's a great word. Yeah. Yes. And it, and it really. [00:40:00] It's really a gift. It's really a gift where us who get it then do it with someone else. And I can think of a time when a fellow captor did it with me after a talk I had done, and we just savored and we knew what was going on, and we also know what the person's doing, and yet we still really enjoy it too.
When they ask the follow-up questions and do active, constructive responding.
Mel: Yeah, exactly. And you know, it's leading my mind into this space. I talk about possibility a lot and I actually call myself a possibility coach now. And because I love living in that space where we're looking at the ideas and the possibilities and we're helping us ourselves to see that things are possible.
And um, I think everything that you're talking about there is this space where we're so. The example that comes to my mind is, again, has been related. Hopefully doesn't mind me talking about things on podcasts. No. But, um, you know, I do. I tell him what I need before the conversation. Mm-hmm. So sometimes I [00:41:00] wanna go in and he is really good at the analyzing part of like, if it's a business idea, for example.
And sometimes I, I, now I know I've, I've self-aware, right? Like, this is the time I need to go and talk to him about this. I know that this is what he is really good at doing. Yeah. And sometimes I want to be able to celebrate with my husband about this crazy idea that I have or this thing that happened or whatever.
And yeah, you're right, like pre-suasion as you put it. Like I go in and I say, right now, I just need you to be excited for me. Yes. And to listen and, and not question it. Later we'll do that. And he's like, okay. And then I'll, I'll be like, and you do this and this and this and this and this. He's like, oh wow, okay.
Like, that sounds amazing. And ideally ask the question afterwards. We're still working on that part, but at least is excited with me. Right. And, um, and I think we can practice that.
Kari: , it's really helpful. I, I find sometimes because humor's such a, a big, uh, high strength of mine, it gives, it's effortless for me. It [00:42:00] gives me energy. It's to put nicknames on it. So I may tell my husband about a problem or a challenge, and I may preempt it is, okay, I wanna talk to Robert Gormley, M B A. Or he'll even ask me a question, be like, okay, do you want me to respond as your husband as pumpkin, or do you want me to be Robert gom?
I love that. It's really good because we had some challenges before and then so now, um, I'm, I'm very fortunate Robert's very open to feed forward, and if there are things where I go off the handle, like they rarely happen again. We don't get to that point. Yeah. And, and I'm really, really grateful because sometimes getting feed forward, we're not all open to it.
Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. I love that. There's this, this part that we've talked about in terms of like, Preempting and like asking for what we need from a response from someone going in. And there's also choosing the right [00:43:00] people for the right things to share. And in that episode where we talk about the steps to connect with your big audacious dream, once you've got an idea that is like big and kind of crazy and it's super audacious, it's really important who we tell.
Right? Absolutely. And actually that person, what we're asking for is we're looking for the person who's gonna do this, who's gonna be so excited for you that they are going to cheer you on. Like, it doesn't matter if you just told them that you're gonna like go step on the moon, right? Like they will be excited for you because they know you can do it 'cause they believe in you and they'll ask you more questions about it, which will make you get clearer about what it is.
Right. , but the types of questions that you just did, that active, constructive responding, that gets you more excited, not worrying about what could go wrong. Right. And it's just so, so important to find those people in your lives. Um, and I offer [00:44:00] then, and I'll offer now that I will always. Be that person for literally anybody that wants to have a 15 minute call, I would be so excited to be the person that someone told an idea to, because that's where my energy comes from, right?
Yes. I love living in that space of possibility. You
Kari: do. I've seen it in action many a times. Yeah.
Mel: So I think it's so important. Lesson you just gave us about active constructive responding, or ACR R is the short version.
But thank you for sharing that teaching with us, and I'm so excited that you're out there teaching people this and so many million more things to build up their resilience and.
As Emiliya, who's the, the head of the flourishing center where we were both trained, would say, you know, bounce back better from the hard things that are going to happen in life. Like, just because we do positive psychology doesn't mean we're happy all the time. It doesn't mean that crappy things don't happen [00:45:00] to us 'cause they do.
But it means that when they do, we, we have the tools to bounce back better than we even were before it happened. Exactly. So, Yeah. Amazing. Is there anything else that you would like to share with the listeners of our podcast? We've got a lot of moms listening in who are at different stages of their dreams, maybe thinking of what they are.
Maybe they're out there doing it, but they're feeling a little nervous. What? What would you like
Kari: to say to them? I'd like to say you are not alone. That everyone has doubts. I have 'em all the time that no one is better than you. If someone can run faster than you, maybe that same person really is envious of your family or whoever it may be.
I, I'd like to remind people that we all have things that happen in our childhood and we're bringing that forward in our [00:46:00] lives, and so, To get curious about perhaps why someone is saying what they're saying and to count on yourself. This is, this is your life, and if right now this big Isha goal is not fitting into your life, that doesn't mean it won't be someday.
I think one of the, the best things I've ever heard, and it's for someone who loves to learn and is super curious and also has a D h D, is this idea of what Steve Jobs said is that you never know what's gonna come in handy.
When you learn something, and I know from my trip around the world, there were times where I was speaking Swedish to some people and it was a secret language. You just never know what you're learning, how it can make a difference, and to, I really wanna recommend people to follow their curiosity, to know that there are enough and to really take on the attitude of why not me?[00:47:00]
Yeah.
Mel: Yeah, exactly. I love, I love all of that and the curiosity part of it, which leads into, you know, all the havening stuff is around that, but planting those seeds in our brain of, well, what if it could do that? Mm-hmm.
Kari: Just what if, and then what, and then what
Mel: exactly
Kari: right? And who else is going to receive your positive energy and what other ripples can be created from this?
Mel: Exactly, and I love how you say, if this time just doesn't feel like the right time to do that big, audacious dream that's in your brain, just remember that. It's also small steps, right? Mm-hmm. Even the fact that you're thinking about it every day is moving you a step closer. So allow yourself to think about it as often as you want to think about it, and then you like start to meet the right people and things just [00:48:00] start to fall into place, like almost by accident because the intention is to think about it and thinking about it makes it clear as well.
So
Kari: absolutely. You're looking for it. Right? Exactly. You're priming yourself. Maybe this person could help or look at that serendipity. It's kinda like the book, the Celestine Prophecy. I don't know if you've read it. No. It's a classic, but basically it's a novel too. The idea is that you'll meet the right person at the right time to help you on your, on your goal.
And it goes back to something I said earlier too, of good, bad, who knows? It can be. Really disappointing in the moment. And you're probably not gonna be as disappointed about this in maybe five days, five weeks, five months, whatever it may be. So know sometimes that this too shall pass. This is not the rest of your life.
Mel: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. Um, where can people find more [00:49:00] about you?
Kari: Yeah, thanks Mel. The best place is to go to my website, kari goli.com. That's k a r i. G O R M L E y.com. I'm also on LinkedIn and also I post not too often on social media and. Sometimes you can find me there, but I'd love to hear from you.
I do have on my website something that you can opt in to receive a free gift, which is seven steps to go from functioning to flourishing. They are simple things that you can do, and I. Also, if you wanna go ahead, drop an email. I love email. , I sound like my teenager who loves Microsoft Teams, like, and his favorite app is settings, which is very meta.
But anyway, so I love email too. And that email address is [email protected]
Mel: that's amazing. Um, and please, oh, and the Flourishing experiment.
Kari: I'm sorry, my podcast, the Flourishing Experiment. Of [00:50:00] course. I was gonna say, please
go
Mel: and listen to you on your podcast because there are some really fascinating people that you have interview on there as well and, uh, full of amazing information along the same realm of what we're doing here.
And, um, and download, you know, that free resource off your website because all of us can do with building up our resiliency. And, um, and with that in mind, there are moms and listeners of all sorts on here. So I'm curious of who is your, like, who do you love to work with? Who's your key people that you're, you're aiming to work with here?
Yeah. So maybe we can all send them your way. Oh,
Kari: That is very generous. I really love working with a person who is a real go-getter. I call them hyper achievers, and they lead with love and they are all really out in the world to make positive impact, and they're also very open to [00:51:00] being reflective. Those are the people I love to work with.
A lot of times love is one of their top values in action, love, and hi love and high achievers because these are people who really make the world go round. Yeah. Yeah.
Mel: Amazing. Okay. Thank you so much for being here, Kari and I have a feeling we might see you in the future if you're up for it.
Kari: I would love that.
Thank you, Mel.
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Oh, so good. I love speaking with Kari and I love that she gives us such practical things that we can go away with. Like think about it. Now you can go away knowing what active, constructive responding is and improve the relationships that you have, but also your own wellbeing. It'll. Boost you, if you practice.
And I say that word very clearly, practice not get [00:52:00] perfect right away. The ability to respond to people in this way. I know I will definitely, definitely be focusing on this going forward.
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